I R retaadeded, Injection pump install gone wrong....

[masterbeavis]

Ok, so I aquired a "good" used IP to slap on my truck to replace the one that leaks. So tonight I did some homework, made the Y that the bolts made sit in the right spot, brought the balancer to TDC, yanked the entire IP and housing. I did not want to mess with dynamic timing, so instead I chanced hitting the right spot with the gears. THe fuel filter was recent, so I did not change it.

I set the new pump/gear housing assy to sit the same way as the old one was, with the "stub" sitting in the 4 o'clock position, and the two upper bolts tilting a degree or so to starboard, the same way the other pump came off.

I put in a new set of glow plugs, got everything put back together.

I left the injectior fittings loose to quicly bleed the air from the system.

I turned the key on, cranked the truck 20-30 seconds each time with a remote starter switch, waiting 2 minutes or so to not get the starter too hot.

After a bit of that fooling around, I started giving the motor a whiff of ether (GPs disconected) to help speed along the bleeding process.

During this whole process, no significant amount of fuel was coming out of the lines.

I pulled the top cover off, verified fuel shutoff solenoid works, IP was full of fuel.

I double checked to make sure there was 12V going to the fuel shutoff solenoid, and I heard/felt an audible click when I un hooked it.

My questions..
How much fuel is supposed to leak as you crank the motor, with the lines off/loose?

How much cranking is needed to purge the air?

If I am a tooth off, eventually would there be enough diesel in there to get the motor to do something?



Once the batteries finish recharging, I will fool with it a bit in the morning. Thinking about it now, I suppose I should have just taken the time to pull the pump separate from the gear so that was one less thing to worry about messing my day up. The gear looked like it matched up like the old one was, perfectly....

 

[towcat]

guess I won't have to work you into my schedule this week.
if you're a tooth off, the difference in gear index is pretty significant. so if you lined it up "right" you should be ok. it's highly possible that you have a bad pump.

 

[Diesel JD]

I'll tell you two things, first if you got the gear assy lined up exactly where it was before, it should be good, if not you can find a post by Zigg here and use his procedure for realigning the timing gears. Even so it should still fire with the timing off a tooth or two. It just will run crappy even after the air bleeds out. About the air, it can taje a lot of bleeding to get it to go. I usually loosen the fuel line at the back of the pump, crank till I have fuel there, then loosen a couple lines on the backside of the IP that go to the injectors to vent the air there. After that if you still have batteries it won't be too many cycles before you start seeing fuel at the injectors. If you can't get any fuel you have a massive airlock, if it just won't bleed after a few more cycles of cranking, resting etc, and bleeding at all the ports I mentioned you have a sheared pumpshaft.

 

[Diesel JD]

I agree I don't like used injection pumps, people treat these fuel systems bad, run them out and such....not that I ever would..

 

[DowneyB]

I just went through this. I think I ran down and recharged my batteries 2-3 times before I actually had fuel at the injectors.

 

[icanfixall]

Well the first thing you need to know is the amount of fuel that can be seen dripping out of the loose fuel lines is vary small. What you need to do is hold the injection pump throttle wide open till it starts to run. They back it down till it cleans up and is running smoothly. I usually have 4 of the easy to reach lines loose and the rest tight. This works for me. If you have an electric lift pump (Holley Red) the purge works faster. I sure hope you got the gears aligned correctly. If not then Ziggs artical will help you fix it.

 

[RLDSL]

Each engine and each time that you do it is different. Some times it takes me 2-3 times of running the batteries down and re charging. Last time, even though the pump was bone dry, the thing was running after about 30 seconds of cranking and only 4 injectors were tightened down Never know.
Ziggs article is here
It should fire even if the timing is way off, it'll smoke like crazy and run like crap, heck, most IDI diesel engines will even cough if they're 180 deg off ( don't ask how I know this

 

[masterbeavis]

Ok I am 2X retarded. After I posted this, I went back outside to screw with it one more time before I went to bed. It had dawned on me that when I started seeing "some" fuel that the truck was cold, and that my new glow plugs had not done their magic. I hooked up the GPs, cycled the key, hit the remote start, walla, she came to life! I finished tightening the remaining loose fittings, and she purrs..... Aside from the fact this pump does not leak, and was not full of rusty parts, this thing does teh same thing as the old one. You revv it up, it stalls if you let off too quickly.... At least it does not leak! I will try a new filter full of injector cleaner to see if that will free up this pump innards, it has been sitting dry for a while.

I read the factory manual, the haynes, chilton (X2) and searched the archives (I read the ZIGG post too) on how to do it the way I did. It appears I got an A+ for application, but a D- for patience. If/when I do it again, I will be a lot more patient.

Thanks again.

 

[Diesel JD]

That either means its starving for fuel or maybe a timing problem. Glad you at least got it running with no leaks.

 

[93turbo_animal]

Ok well now that you went to all that work should we tell you that it could still be out of time? As the pump wears the timing changes so even if you put it excactly back where your other one was don't mean a thing cause you don't know how much the pumps wore

 

[Diesel JD]

Well at least he's probably not off on the gear. He needs to get up with towcat and have it timed dynamically with some of his tools. Anything beyond that is a guess, but if I had to guess I'd say you're a few degrees retarded.

 

[masterbeavis]

Ok well now that you went to all that work should we tell you that it could still be out of time? As the pump wears the timing changes so even if you put it excactly back where your other one was don't mean a thing cause you don't know how much the pumps wore

Yeah, I know, however I have a timing date set up with towcat this week to fix that problem.

[edit] I think I am retarded too, I am getting white smoke.

 

[Diesel JD]

I think that will fix it, if not you've got injector problems or something internal to the motor or yet again perhaps a pinched fuel line or fuel leak causing starvation at higher RPM, or a bad lift pump.