I Need Front & Rear Crank Seal Advice

[THECACKLER]

I just got back from a 3000 mile trip on a fresh engine and both my front and rear main seals are leaking. I am running 10W-30 John Deere Engine Break-in Oil. I have built numerous engines and never had seals leak like this. If I top the oil to the "Full" mark, it leaks out at the rate of a quart in 200 miles. If I let the level drop to 1-1/2 quarts low I can run 1000 miles and only loose another 1/4 of a quart. Top it up again and it's back to leaking at an alarming rate. So to put it in other terms, in the first 1000 miles I leaked 3-1/2 quarts. I sensed that it was level dependent, and so I ran it low on the dipstick and only used or leaked a half a pint. I used a total of 5 quarts in 3000 miles. I may have damaged the seals with an initial overfilling of the crankcase. I am running the FL1995 PSD filter and on initial fill, I put 3 Gallons of oil in it and it still was 1/2 Qt. low on the stick. I attributed that to the initial filling of the Oil Cooler and all the little nooks and crannies that never quite drain out when changing oil.
I did have some difficulty installing the dipstick tube and haven't figured out why. I ended up swapping out the dipstick guide tube with one from another engine. I checked the IH part numbers on the dipstick and they were the same.
Anyways, I don't think the seals are going to come back to life, so I need to replace them. When I built the engine I used the seals that came in Felpro Gasket set. Maybe that was a mistake. When I used to build air cooled engines, I would go to the dealer for main seals to ensure fresh and to spec. condition. I'm not sure how good the "Gasket Set" ones are. The front balancer seal had a very slight drool from the get go and they both started leaking bad after I got the engine hot.
I have seen seals available in Teflon, Viton and Rubber for the rear seal and just rubber for the front. I don't know what Ford or International sell but I want to get the best seal I can because I don't want to do the job twice, especially the rear one with the transfer case to deal with as well as the turbo down pipe.
Also any thoughts on something like Bars Leak seal swell products? Has anybody ever had success with them or recommendations? It would be for interim use only but I am concerned as to what they might do to the oil cooler o-rings and the head gaskets.
Any suggestions?

 

[nyteshades]

Have you tried re-tightening oilpan bolts just to make sure everything is snugged up? I had that happen on my 5.8 after a rebuild. On a fresh motor, the last thing I would want in it is stop leak anything.

 

[Diesel JD]

This really sucks. I have heard a lot of people have a hard time with the rear main seal, getting it to survive installation and live a normal, long life. I guess I was just really blessed mine didn't do that. I had mine replaced when my mechanic friend and I did the T18 swap. I know nothing about the front main seal. The rear main I got was from NAPA. Hopefully some of these IDI build veterans will be here to counsel you in awhile, although a lot of them are at the rally. Your oil consumption doesn't sound too bad especially for break in and especially for using a 10w-30 when a SAE30 or 15w-40 is more common, but with all the work you put into it, you'd want it to be basically zero, also something isn't right if you can see it leaking from the seals for sure. 3 gallons seems like an awful lot of oil, I guess it's not really that much. Usually an IDI+ FL1995 or equivalent filter uses 11 quarts. Your logic about the rebuild and clean up making it dry in places that normally retain some oil also makes sense. Probably enough to make up for an extra quart or so. Also remember to only check the oil dipstick with the engine warm and about 10-15 minutes after a shutdown, and only on level ground.

 

[Dieselcrawler]

i used lucas once, and to my surprise my oil cooler orings stopped leaking. ran it every oil change since. throw thicker oil (15w40) in and a bottle of lucas maybe?

 

[icanfixall]

First off these oil pans hold 11 quarts when you are using the Ford 1995 oil filter. It does not matter what the dip stick is telling you. Your posting about have "trouble" installing the dip stick tells me your not getting an accurate read because the pan will only hold 11 qts with the 1995 or 10 qts with the smaller filters. As for the seals. The rear seal that I use is a teflon twin lip seal with a wear ring called a speedy sleeve. Difficult to install but they work great. The front seal area just like the rear seal area is probably worn so a speedy sleeve is required on both surfaces. Sleeves are available most anywhere.

 

[Cincinnati Guy]

Whats the part number for the twin lip seal?

 

[icanfixall]

The Ford part number for the seal with the speedy sleeve is F2TZ-6701-A. The last ones I bought were around $40.00 from Fordparts Online (Bob Utter Ford in Sherman Texas). I also bought the same seal from International and it was $87.00.... They got me on that sale cause I really needed it now kinda thing.... They wont get me again. I usually buy two od everything.. Just in case issues come up on Sunday nite after o dark thrity....

 

[fury9]

one thing I always do with any type compression seal is to use a thin coat of red locktite around the diameter. Don't know if it really helps but I haven't had a seal leak since that was recommended to me. Maybe it works or I'm just better at puttin the darn things in now. X2 on the dipstick reading too. Assuming you have a real oil gage, How's the oil pressure,When"full" and when "low", and in between?

 

[RLDSL]

Personally I wouldn't touch another one of those teflon seals. I ordered one of those overpriced things and the stupid installer that came with it wasn't big enough to go over the end of the crank and the friggen seal tore( felpro POS I should have known better)
You may need a wear sleeve . did you check for a groove in your crank before you put it together? They make wear sleeves for the front and rear. with that and a good rubber seal you won't have any more leaks.
aside from that putting 12.5 qts in is a recipe for burning right off the bat

Pinpoint the leaks Get a uv dye for your oil and make sure where it's comong out you will need a uv light and glasses like used for AC testing, they have cheap sets for about $15 at most parts stores, Advance is now carrying the oil dye, Napa and snap on have always caried it

 

[THECACKLER]

The Crankshaft seal surface looked excellent, the HB had a very slight groove worn in it, probably not enough to leak but I set the seal out forward of it enough to miss the groove I think. I believe the initial overfill of oil and perhaps the condition of the seals may be the contributing factors to this situation. I set the seals using Permatex aviation sealant on the OD so I'm confident they aren't leaking at that junction.
Unfortunately I don't have the time right now to do the rear seal as I have to get my house and garage stuff moved ASAP because my house is now on the market.
Any thoughts on the seal swell products? If not I'll have to keep running with the oil low on the stick until I can change it out to 15W-40 in another 2 or 3 weeks at 7000 miles.

 

[icanfixall]

What did you use for the oil pan gasket??/ The only real safe pan gasket is the rtv. The factroy used it and many members have done it that way. The supplied cork or rubber gaskets just wont hold up over the long run. I really don't know why gasket sets supply them when they don't work so well..... Maybe its a money thing. Charge you for something that doesn't work.... Kinda like a Toyota....

 

[OLDBULL8]

Cold engine--Leave it 1-Qt. low on the stick.
10W-30 or 15W-40 should not make a difference in oil consumption.
A half pint would be normal in a 1000 miles on a fresh engine.
How is the crankcase vent? Did you return the turbo oil to the intake gasket? The baffel under the intake gasket cannot handle a large amount of oil. I think there is two different gaskets, one for turbo and one for non-turbo.

I did have some difficulty installing the dipstick tube and haven't figured out why. I ended up swapping out the dipstick guide tube with one from another engine. I checked the IH part numbers on the dipstick and they were the same.

Your problem may be the stick, a 1/4" on there is about 1 qt. Maybe the guide tube is too long.

If your only using a pint in a 1000 miles, I would leave it low until you can determine if the rear seal is actually leaking from overfill.

 

[THECACKLER]

I used 1/8" beads of Grey RTV on the side rails & 1/4" beads front and back and doubled up the beads on the corners as specified in the FSM.
I used Hylomar on the Seal Adapter Plates and am hoping that's not the problem.
I replaced the CDR at TOWCAT's recommendation. The turbo oil returns as stock 94IDIT's do, into the Valley Pan.
I just warmed it up and checked my oil again and it's about 1.25 Qts. low on the stick with only about 2-3 drops leaking when setting for 20 mins.
Last oil added was about 500 miles ago and that brought it up to 1/2 Qt. low. So that's 3/4 Qt. in 500 miles.
The drips are from the Flywheel Inspection Cover but there is a trail of oil running front to back on the oil pan and oil slinging out from behind the HB onto the Vacuum pump and things in that area, so its not all from the rear.
Anybody have any thoughts or experience on those "Seal Swell" additives? I have heard that the "High Miler" oils have that additive in them already. I just don't know if they're safe to use.