Help me decide, E4OD vs ZF5

[Mulochico]

Well, I have been a professional driver for 30+ years. I have had 2 personal vehicles that were auto in the last 40 years, drove me nuts. Ran local (loco?) in L. A. for 6 years and never hated the 10 speed I had at the time. If I had my way there would be no autos in my fleet. Work has a few autos, I avoid them like the plague, too much b.s. when backing heavy. Love to be able to feather the clutch.

If you are even thinking that it is a pain to drive a stick in traffic, go auto. I don't like the fact the autos are more of a pain when they break, but that is me. Old man, old truck, old school. Either way it is your decision and I hope it works well for you.

 

[oregon96psd]

And OMG that F'n turn signal, the people around me must be so confused at times. He's going left, no right, no left, f-it U-turn.

That stupid tow haul thing is F'n useless it just delays everything in stupid ways. 6 gears is just too damn many for a stupid gov regulated eco-retard computer to manage. I never let it go past 4th.

I think we drive exactly the same

I do have the diesel, its not to bad in the 650.....the 300 horse version in the 550, not so much. Oh, and they fixed the turn signal in the 650, it actually stays where you put it.....no more Morse code lane changes for me lol

 

[SDEconVan]

There was a time where I would never consider an auto, dismissed, straight away, the manual has the clutch and control. Then, my driving
needs changed, I got older (cringe) or lazy with it, I got surrounded by tech in the cab: GPS nav, a mini HUD, Bluetooth phone and with my
4x4 Club Wagon, more people in the rig. I welcome a lot of the tech, I can say, it makes other things much more efficient. I'm
a big fan of the E4OD when built RIGHT is one of my top 3 choices for low rpm diesels with high torque off-idle. I'm an even bigger fan
of the stand alone controller like the one you mention. IF you are tech savvy, like the idea of plugging your laptop into the USB port and
making "shift tables" to suit your style or needs, then it's a no-brainer, work smart, plan your set up (like you are, by asking this question,)
and life will be much easier in the daily run.

I built up my own E4OD to a Stage 3, had great help from members on this forum, cherry picking the key upgrades, working against a set
budget, and ended up with a transmission better than I had hoped for. If you've never torn down a transmission before, then your budget
is gonna take a hit, PLUS you're trusting someone else to do it (and this is a double edged sword, you get experience, but like my core E4OD
(which I had an itemized invoice from the guy who sold it to me, FULL REBUILD, etc. etc.,) you can have sub-standard and even NON-diesel
parts in your transmission.)

With the stand alone controller, you can have a selector dial on your dash and change different shift tables "on the fly." These tables can be
whatever you think you need, upshift points, downshift, lockouts, it makes driving your rig a LOT of fun, IF you're into tech... ...like I said
it is no exaggeration that I was very impressed with their controller (Shift1.)

It was mentioned about EMP shielding, funny but I did a lot of mine using the same mylar stuff they send electronics parts with, and placement
of your electronics will determine how shielded you are. If for some odd reason you were the target of a "directed beam weapon" (such as
the Boeing Phantom Works' "CHAMP" system,) even mil-spec hardened electronics systems are now vulnerable (they had a successful test
2 weeks ago,) BUT you are not likely a directed target. General EMP at the edge of effective downwash or blast radius is not likely to harm
your electronics if you do basic, simple shielding- hopefully you will never have to find out. *I know about this stuff as I once worked in a
related field.

Do you have any pictures of your Centurion? Not many idi-powered rigs left, I've only seen one!

Have fun!

Here's my E4OD built (along with BW1356 rebuild)
http://www.oilburners.net/forums/sh...E4OD-on-the-outside-wait-a-minute!&highlight=

My van:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X1dLxbJAvQ

 

[raydav]

I have been running an E4OD with a Baumann controller for a decade or so. The only problem I have had is a connector loosing contact. I have LEDs on all the solenoids. If none are energized, it is forth gear, no converter lock. I have never tried manual shifting with a dead controller.

I built my current trans; three days for the trans and two days for the valve body kit. If I had immediately started a second, it would have probably taken one day.

Get a triple disk converter. They have billet covers. I allowed a single disk to try to lock with my right foot on the floor, and I went home on a flat bed.

 

[u2slow]

The primary rig in question is an 89 Centurion 4 Door Bronco. NA7.3IDI, E4OD, D60, etc. Bought it about 2 weeks ago and the tranny is doing funky things. Most concerning is an RPM flare during the 2-3 shift. I intend this rig to be my primary do it all while never letting me down rig. Daily driver, some off-road adventures, some towing, and a BOV.

ZF5 and don't look back. The IDI feels so much peppier... which you'll appreciate driving it daily and towing.

I intend to run the same diesel ZF in one of my cummins builds. The close ratios are especially nice.

 

[Hydro-idi]

No brainer when comparing the two.
ZF-5 all the way.
You will get hooked on headache medication if you go with the E40h sh*t .

 

[saburai]

No.I like the factory ('94) TECA's.

Do you know what the difference is between the turbo and the NA unit is?

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

Do you know what the difference is between the turbo and the NA unit is?

No.I can't really tell the difference.I had always thought,that perhaps the shift scheduling would be slightly different (like,slightly higher rpm shifts to help keep the turbo spooled up) and that perhaps during a OD to 3rd downshift,under acceleration,would result in a slightly longer re-apply of the converter to lock (to help aid in the turbo spool,via the higher rpm) however,I'm not so sure it's the case.Well,it probably is the case,I just haven't compared back to back enough,to know yet.

That said,I haven't really compared the two a whole lot yet.In chip truck,I have the N/A TECA (with intercooled banks turbo) 3.55 gearing.
In log truck I have the turbo spec TECA (talk about rare! you ever seen an F-450 with a factory turbo being sold or in person? me either!) and a N/A spec TECA.(with intercooled banks turbo) 5.13 gearing.
The N/A spec,I haven't used much.It's laying under the hood still so I can plug it in and compare it a bit more on a nice long drive,the next time I use the truck an hour out,I'll do this and see if I can clearly feel any differences.

I just put a nice used reman in log truck and man,I've fallen in love all over again with this truck.There's no better trans than the E4OD to go behind an IDI IMO.I love 'em (with extra low stall converters and shift kits) crisp,fast and powerful.

A couple pro's the ZF5 guys don't want you to know.
The E4OD is rated to tow more than ZF5 trucks.
The E4OD is rated for towing in OD.The ZF5 is not.
The E4OD shifts far quicker than anyone can with a ZF5 making for a much quicker truck.
The E4OD doesn't have the wide gear spread making you wish it didn't upshift when towing/hauling heavy.
The E4OD shifts,help aid in keeping the turbo spooled up where your going back and starting over between manual shifting the slow,wide spaced ZF5.
The E4OD doesn't force me,to set down my coffee between shifts....the most important pro vs con of all!

/strapping on the Kevlar.

 

[madpogue]

The E4OD is rated to tow more than ZF5 trucks.

May or may not be relevant for a BOV; "bug out" doesn't generally imply "take a 20,000-lb TT with all the comforts of home with you".

The E4OD is rated for towing in OD.The ZF5 is not.

Nothing in my owner's manual, diesel supplement, FSMs, etc. that says not to tow in fifth gear with our ZF5s.

The E4OD shifts far quicker than anyone can with a ZF5 making for a much quicker truck.

Again, how relevant for a BOV? I'll take simplicity, reliability and control over speed any day.

The E4OD doesn't have the wide gear spread making you wish it didn't upshift when towing/hauling heavy.

I never wish my ZF5 didn't upshift......

The E4OD shifts,help aid in keeping the turbo spooled up where your going back and starting over between manual shifting the slow,wide spaced ZF5.

Actually, the spacing between the second and fifth gear ratios on the ZF5s (varying slightly depending on which tranny) is roughly the same as the first-fourth spacing of the E4OD. Some are spaced actually closer. The only real difference is the ZF5 first gear, no matter which one, is lower than any gear in the E4OD.

The E4OD doesn't force me,to set down my coffee between shifts....the most important pro vs con of all!

I can pick up my coffee between shifts. I would have to put it down DURING shifts....

(But that's only if I ever did anything like that while driving anyway.....)

'Course, it really comes down to whether the OP wants an automatic or manual truck. The driving experiences are so different, it's apples to oranges.

 

[Thewespaul]

From my experience buying and selling local idis the 5 speed trucks sell for $800-1000 bucks more

 

[Daryl4]

I'm
a big fan of the E4OD when built RIGHT is one of my top 3 choices for low rpm diesels with high torque off-idle.

Thanks for the great reply...

Curious what your other two are. I've had this thought in the back of my head that a built 700R4 would be pretty good.

I'm an even bigger fan of the stand alone controller like the one you mention. IF you are tech savvy, like the idea of plugging your laptop into the USB port and making "shift tables" to suit your style or needs, then it's a no-brainer, work smart, plan your set up (like you are, by asking this question,)
and life will be much easier in the daily run.

I'm tech savvy enough, and do like the idea of tuning with my laptop. Wouldn't be my first time either. In the past I've done a fair amount of custom engine management and transmission control tuning that way. Had great success with it in the past and I look forward to it again to a point. I ordered the Baumann this morning, but that's about as electrical dependent as I think I wanna go on this rig, also a big fan of K.I.S.S. when it comes to the things I rely on. To my line of thinking if I'm going to have an E4OD then the Baumann is about as bulletproof as it's gunna get controller wise.

I built up my own E4OD to a Stage 3, had great help from members on this forum, cherry picking the key upgrades, working against a set
budget, and ended up with a transmission better than I had hoped for. If you've never torn down a transmission before, then your budget
is gonna take a hit, PLUS you're trusting someone else to do it (and this is a double edged sword, you get experience, but like my core E4OD
(which I had an itemized invoice from the guy who sold it to me, FULL REBUILD, etc. etc.,) you can have sub-standard and even NON-diesel
parts in your transmission.)

Looks like that's going to be coming up on my to-do list. There's only two items on this rig I haven't rebuilt(in other rigs) or are at least very confident with. Automatic transmissions and the IP. Both are on my list of things to learn and do.

With the stand alone controller, you can have a selector dial on your dash and change different shift tables "on the fly." These tables can be
whatever you think you need, upshift points, downshift, lockouts, it makes driving your rig a LOT of fun, IF you're into tech... ...like I said
it is no exaggeration that I was very impressed with their controller (Shift1.)

This new Quick4 has even more cool stuff, looking forward to it.

Do you have any pictures of your Centurion? Not many idi-powered rigs left, I've only seen one!

Of course, let's see if I can get it to work. This pic is from the sale ad, nice pic. Still looks like that except I removed the rubber side molding, it was missing parts and falling off anyway, that and never been a fan. I'll get more pics up soon.. I hope.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Daryl4]

I have been running an E4OD with a Baumann controller for a decade or so. The only problem I have had is a connector loosing contact. I have LEDs on all the solenoids. If none are energized, it is forth gear, no converter lock. I have never tried manual shifting with a dead controller.

That's great to hear! I'd really appreciate some details on the LEDs, I was thinking about doing exactly that. I asked Baumann about it when I called this morning, guy said he'd see if they could work up a recommended wiring diagram for me.

I built my current trans; three days for the trans and two days for the valve body kit. If I had immediately started a second, it would have probably taken one day.

Get a triple disk converter. They have billet covers. I allowed a single disk to try to lock with my right foot on the floor, and I went home on a flat bed.

I'm gunna have to keep the tranny I have going for a while. Trying to buy a house, move, etc. all in the next 4 months. No time for extensive tranny work. But that's high on the to-do list after the move... I hope.

 

[Daryl4]

I bought the controller... so settled on trying to keep the E4OD for now, but down the line.....

ZF5 and don't look back. The IDI feels so much peppier... which you'll appreciate driving it daily and towing.

I intend to run the same diesel ZF in one of my cummins builds. The close ratios are especially nice.

It is nice having that solid feel. I have a IDI ZF truck, haven't driven it much it's not legal but yes there's a pep to the solid connection. That said this rig really likes to go, I'm surprised really it moves quite well for a NA IDI. Both of course are better then my C6 rig, the IDI and C6 do not play well together.

No brainer when comparing the two.
ZF-5 all the way.
You will get hooked on headache medication if you go with the E40h sh*t .

Maybe, maybe it will drain my wallet, guess we'll see.

 

[Daryl4]

The E4OD is rated to tow more than ZF5 trucks.

May or may not be relevant for a BOV; "bug out" doesn't generally imply "take a 20,000-lb TT with all the comforts of home with you".

Well BOV is only one potential use of this rig I said at the beginning "I intend this rig to be my primary do it all while never letting me down rig. Daily driver, some off-road adventures, some towing, and a BOV." Towing is in there and is certainly important to me. That said E4OD vs ZF5 for towing strength I consider a toss up and it all depends on the driver, specific tranny, engine etc. Ratings are one thing but from what I hear both do well when treated right.

The E4OD is rated for towing in OD.The ZF5 is not

Nothing in my owner's manual, diesel supplement, FSMs, etc. that says not to tow in fifth gear with our ZF5s.

To my mind this is two sides of the same coin. In both it's direct vs overdrive, in both the overdrive creates more heat cause there's more gears under load. The E4OD might have the slight edge here as it has a pump and cooler. There's no good way for the ZF to cool.

The E4OD shifts far quicker than anyone can with a ZF5 making for a much quicker truck.

Again, how relevant for a BOV? I'll take simplicity, reliability and control over speed any day.

This certainly matters to me daily and IMO matters to a BOV as well. Me, I like to go fast, I'm a grumpy fast aggressive driver. A BOV is about escape, speed certainly matters there as well.

The E4OD shifts,help aid in keeping the turbo spooled up where your going back and starting over between manual shifting the slow,wide spaced ZF5.

Actually, the spacing between the second and fifth gear ratios on the ZF5s (varying slightly depending on which tranny) is roughly the same as the first-fourth spacing of the E4OD. Some are spaced actually closer. The only real difference is the ZF5 first gear, no matter which one, is lower than any gear in the E4OD.

Well this rig is currently NA, how long it will stay that way I can't say but only as long as it has to. That said I think FORDF250HDXLT wasn't thinking about gear spacing but about having to lift between gears.

'Course, it really comes down to whether the OP wants an automatic or manual truck. The driving experiences are so different, it's apples to oranges.

True enough and frankly that's what this was about, I don't know, both have their ups and downs. Though for now anyway I've settled on auto as I ordered the controller. Thinking with it's manual control options I'll get the best of both, we'll see.

Appreciate you're replies, thanks.

 

[Daryl4]

From my experience buying and selling local idis the 5 speed trucks sell for $800-1000 bucks more

I agree and if selling it was important then that would certainly be a plus for the ZF. But I don't intend to ever sell this rig.