Has anyone used an MLS type head gasket on IDI's yet?

[6 Nebraska IDIs]

Head gaskets and improperly assembled heads are the most common failures. By improperly assembled heads I mean builders installing positive valve stem seals, they keep too much oil off of the valves and that causes premature wear. But yea head gaskets are difficult to keep in IDIs that are trying to push the limits.

NMB2's story about using MLS head gaskets is a load of you know what too. There's pictures of the tare down of the engine that was supposedly running those MLS gaskets and they are just plain ol felpro composite gaskets like I used in my engine.

The day my brown truck blew up the last time it was pushing 15psi boost. When the gasket let go I could tell it wasn't running right and it would barely push 12-13. That was how I knew the impeding destruction was coming.

 

[92F350CC]

So these MLS gaskets, would you be putting them on your built engine when you get it going again?

 

[6 Nebraska IDIs]

Thats what I'm planning on. I'm willing to be a guinea pig if it means trying something new that could be the answer to everyones problems with these engines for years. If it blows up again then its my fault this time.

 

[88 Ford]

If you read from the beginning of his thread, NMB2 said he used a regular Felpro gasket. Go look and it never says that he used a MLS. Not to derail the thread, but I would be interested in a MLS also. Depending on the costs for sure but if they were cheaper than the C-ring it would be a good possibilty for me.

 

[rwilles]

Update from Chris Workman @ Cometic:

The business plan that they follow at this time up front development costs are covered up-front. The cost for development of a standard MLS is in the $3500+ range. A review with their Chief engineer will cover the special stuff required on our engines and determine if a Phuzon gasket is possible. As others have stated it then becomes a stock item and there are no additional costs. It's to much for one person to cover (Mel, the profits from all those Moose Pumps (I know poor joke)? and don't see a way for someone to recoup costs from the sale of future gaskets, as Cometic won't participate with an individual.

Just for some cost comparisons a Powerstroke MLS gasket is about $160. A Phuzon gasket for a big block Chevy is about $360. Seems about the same as the composite that wont take one atmosphere without lots of risk.

A MLS gasket could be as thick as 149 thousandths at 5 layers and at about 30 thou per layer any combo in between. A Phuzon gasket would run standard a 50 thou, and max at 75 thou. For fair notice the Phuzon will only handle 2 thou out of true. The decks would have to be check for true as well as heads rebuilt. (may as well rebuild?)

(rabbit trail that will come back around) Does anyone have a thickness measurements of the 93-94 Carbon fiber gaskets from ROL? My understanding is that they were 3-4 times as thick as original/standard gaskets, reducing the compression of these engines. I have got calls into them as well but no call back. will post update as soon as I hear. O'Reillys has the part number (HG 33840) but they say not obtainable.

I did my best to convey the interest of the community in these engines, the new developments in fuel and exhaust to Comitic, even referred them here to see the volume of people. But I think it might just come down to, "how many people will pay ($100 extra for 35 people, or $35 for 100 people) with upfront orders to get this much better technology?"

A reply here will help in the negotiations, but as in purchasing from E-bay don't bid unless you can follow up.

I'll have more information tomorrow.

 

[rwilles]

I used a nice HKS gasket on mine that has some sort of rubber impregnated areas around the water and oil passages, and a compression style ring around the combustion chamber

Ryan[/QUOTE]

I'll blame it on the OMG (Old Man Glasses). didn't read this part before. Are your HKS gaskets MLS? If so you may have already have the first step of what we are looking for.

 

[Diesile]

I'm watching and interested. If we could know this is an answer the up front cost is doable.

 

[rwilles]

Well we could give you naming rights. Like the "Diesile" memorial Phuzon Head gasket!

 

[Brimmstone]

Update from Chris Workman @ Cometic:

The business plan that they follow at this time up front development costs are covered up-front. The cost for development of a standard MLS is in the $3500+ range. A review with their Chief engineer will cover the special stuff required on our engines and determine if a Phuzon gasket is possible. As others have stated it then becomes a stock item and there are no additional costs. It's to much for one person to cover (Mel, the profits from all those Moose Pumps (I know poor joke)? and don't see a way for someone to recoup costs from the sale of future gaskets, as Cometic won't participate with an individual.

Just for some cost comparisons a Powerstroke MLS gasket is about $160. A Phuzon gasket for a big block Chevy is about $360. Seems about the same as the composite that wont take one atmosphere without lots of risk.

A MLS gasket could be as thick as 149 thousandths at 5 layers and at about 30 thou per layer any combo in between. A Phuzon gasket would run standard a 50 thou, and max at 75 thou. For fair notice the Phuzon will only handle 2 thou out of true. The decks would have to be check for true as well as heads rebuilt. (may as well rebuild?)

(rabbit trail that will come back around) Does anyone have a thickness measurements of the 93-94 Carbon fiber gaskets from ROL? My understanding is that they were 3-4 times as thick as original/standard gaskets, reducing the compression of these engines. I have got calls into them as well but no call back. will post update as soon as I hear. O'Reillys has the part number (HG 33840) but they say not obtainable.

I did my best to convey the interest of the community in these engines, the new developments in fuel and exhaust to Comitic, even referred them here to see the volume of people. But I think it might just come down to, "how many people will pay ($100 extra for 35 people, or $35 for 100 people) with upfront orders to get this much better technology?"

A reply here will help in the negotiations, but as in purchasing from E-bay don't bid unless you can follow up.

I'll have more information tomorrow.

Just checked and found the ROL gaskets on amazon for 95 dollars

 

[rwilles]

From Amizon.com: Your search "rol gaskets 7.3 idi diesel" did not match any products

 

[rwilles]

found this: as a HS33840 part number. http://www.amazon.com/ROL-Gaskets-H...utomotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1320718410&sr=1-1-fkmr1 Maybe the 'S' instead of 'G' means Steel instead of graphite. will check tomorrow.

 

[riotwarrior]

Ok so if I got this right, there is a chance for a freaky Ass Kicking head gasket for an up front cost of 100 bones for development, then the actual gasket cost is that correct?

If so whats an approximate cost of a pair of gaskets?

If reasonable, count me in for development cash...I need my ***** to work and work right the first time for a long time...NUFF said!

 

[6 Nebraska IDIs]

The guy I've been talking to is one of those development engineers. lol He's probably gonna crap a brick thinking I went to someone else with this. haha
Atleast you got someone to write you back. My guy hasn't written me in a while. I knew there were upfront costs supposedly. I told my contact that it's ridiculous to expect customers to pay upfront development costs for an item they would be making money on. That was the last time he wrote me.

Judging on the cost I've read about BBC Phuzion gaskets, ours will probably be in the $500-$600 range I'd think. To me its worth it if it solves the problem. Convicing 35 other guys that it is, well thats allot easier said than done. Which was why I was fighting for them to cover the development cost.

 

[6 Nebraska IDIs]

If you read from the beginning of his thread, NMB2 said he used a regular Felpro gasket. Go look and it never says that he used a MLS. Not to derail the thread, but I would be interested in a MLS also. Depending on the costs for sure but if they were cheaper than the C-ring it would be a good possibilty for me.

For comparison, O-ringing a BBC costs about $900, because they make you deck the block and then they do the oringing process which is also really expensive. In comparison, $600 to $900+, I'd go with the Phuzions if we can get them made.

Also, no derail you're fine. But NMB2 stated here on this forum several times that the engine he was running had custom made MLS gaskets in it. He also stated it to me on a couple occasions in PM, where he pretty much called me a ******** for questioning him.

 

[6 Nebraska IDIs]

Here's what I think we need to do. We need to write up a letter to cometic, make it generic but have a few areas where you put your name in it or something so they know its a different person sending it. Make it state that you want them to develop the Phuzion gasket for the IH 6.9 and 7.3 IDI diesel engine. I'm still thinking their $3500 development cost is a deterrent for people who arent serious. Well we are serious, and I think if we can get 100 people to send this letter to them they might just change their minds. Because look at it like this, you get 1 or 2 people writing you telling you they want a very expensive item developed. You're going to tell them to kiss off. But if you have 100 people writing you telling you they want that same item and you're looking at a $600 item thats $60,000 in sales before you even draw a sketch.