Has anyone used an MLS type head gasket on IDI's yet?

[6 Nebraska IDIs]

I'm looking at installing an MLS type head gasket on my brown truck. I just want to know if you guys think its possible, unless I head a nay from someone I know would know their stuff, I'm going to do it. For MLS gaskets to work the block and head surface needs to be within .002" flatness and have a finish of 50RA or finer. So I'm in for some work but I want this truck back on the road and I'm willing to step into uncharted territory to make it last this time.

EDIT: If you have serious interest in getting these made for our engines, please click the "Thanks" button on this post so we can get an honest count of who's interested in getting this done, even if it takes a small investment to get a company to make them.

 

[reklund]

Not on my IDI, but my Supra has one. You're right, the finish and machining tolerances are important, but a good machine shop should have no trouble setting you up.

I actually lapped the block in the car on my Supra with a lapping disc and valve lapping compound. it's a helluva workout, but it did the trick. I think it'd be really hard to do in the frame of a truck, since the V8 deck surfaces sit at an angle, and the 45lb lapping disc would constantly want to slide off.

You have a source for some MLS gaskets? I used a nice HKS gasket on mine that has some sort of rubber impregnated areas around the water and oil passages, and a compression style ring around the combustion chamber. I think some MLS gaskets and some studs would be a really nice setup on an IDI- keep me informed!

Ryan

 

[93f250idi]

Nbm2 used em

 

[FordGuy100]

He also had a different turbo, and then no wait he had the stock one. He was full of hot air, I took everything he said with a grain of salt.

 

[towcat]

Nbm2 used em

if you've physically seen the product, I'll believe you.
Unless there is a manufacturer that has produced a MLS headgasket in quantity, the cost to produce a one-off gasket would exceed the cost of a complete motor.
so....either direct me to a sales source or post pics or swear you have seen it in person.

 

[typ4]

The finish is 20 to 30. and here is a good read.

http://www.arrowheadradiator.com/head_gasket_failure.htm



and as usual Cometic only has PS and cummins MLS gaskets.

 

[6 Nebraska IDIs]

I have a guy at Cometic that wants some stuff of mine for his Camaro project, parts that are impossible to find, and I'm considering having him pay me in making 6.9/7.3 IDI head gaskets a production item. These would not be standard Cometic MLS gaskets, they will be the Phuzion line of gaskets with the silver gas filled o-rings. If I can get them to make those for IDI's I'm thinking we might, just maybe, have a gasket that wont blow out in our high compression diesel engines.

 

[Matrix37495]

It's nice to have friends in high places...

 

[towcat]

I have a guy at Cometic that wants some stuff of mine for his Camaro project, parts that are impossible to find, and I'm considering having him pay me in making 6.9/7.3 IDI head gaskets a production item. These would not be standard Cometic MLS gaskets, they will be the Phuzion line of gaskets with the silver gas filled o-rings. If I can get them to make those for IDI's I'm thinking we might, just maybe, have a gasket that wont blow out in our high compression diesel engines.

sean-
you'll be our new lab rat

 

[rwilles]

Cometic gasket

Sean,

Just read through the 40+ pages and 2+ years of travails with the brown truck! Astounding amounts of work, attention to detail, and patience. I would have been very tempted to follow through with the slug through the block. I know it's not alive, but walking around it concentrating deeply while loading and unloading the pump action couldn't have hurt. With as many problems as you have encountered it would sure set the right tone for the next time!

Your tale (and others) caused me to conclude that a build for power without addressing the weak link in our trucks as the head gasket is like hanging $3-4 grand and lots of hours work, out the window of our trucks and hoping it won't blow away.

Some have gotten away with the Felpro/ VR composite gaskets, the best post I've seen was on another site and he used bolts over torqued to 105lbs, the gaskets failed approaching 20 lbs of boost and he reworked the setup with 3 coats of copper seal on block, both sides of the gasket, and rebuilt heads. He re-torqued to 110 lbs and had ran it for 30k miles at the time of the post.

I blew my passenger side head gasket in August while towing a heavy load of wood and have been looking for the ROL original '93-'94 7.3 IDIt OE carbon fiber gaskets before I broke the motor apart. BTW what brand head-gasket were you using when they failed?

Just found out about the Comitic possibility and found your post. Just based on current posts on head gaskets there might be enough interest to follow through with a group purchase. Start up costs split between those of us interested would be something I'd be willing to get in on. I had even called Hypermax to see if they had a 'C' ring gasket still on the shelves. That part was over $1,000 and I would pay it gladly to make sure i didn't waste all the time and money on a rebuild that just blows a head gasket.

What is the status on you communication with Comitic? The Phuzion would be the gasket I'd be looking for. I have left messages last week and sent an e-mail today. No response yet. Who are you speaking with? I'm pretty good on the phone and would take over contact responsibilities if it would help.

Thanks for blazing a trail and all the pictures. Its been great to see.

Robb

 

[bike-maker]

Like the article states above; MLS gaskets came about when manufacturers started mass producing engines with aluminum cylinder heads bolted onto cast iron blocks. When the engine goes from cold to operating temp, the aluminum head expands faster and more than the cast iron block it is trying to seal to; the multiple layers of steel and smooth surface finish allow the layers to actually slide on one another, resulting in a gasket that can with stand more heat cycles before having a blowout.
With IDI's being plain old cast iron, I am not convinced a MLS head gasket is the way to go.

 

[6 Nebraska IDIs]

I'm looking into the Phuzions because as you know, unless you send your block somewhere to get O-ringed, its not possible to o-ring an IDI cylinder head. The precups are made of hardened steel and its just not possible to machine them for an oring. Thus why I believe the phuzion gasket is the answer since it has an o-ring that doesn't require sealing. The technology came about in WWII and was used in the most demanding circumstances. Those engines were all cast iron and that was a MLS type gasket with that O-ring in it. I'm willing to give it a try if I can get them to make the gaskets.

Robb, Thank you for the compliments on my build. You obviously understand how frustrating it is to build something with what is supposed to be the best components on the market only to have it break down time and again because of manufacturers defects and so on. I saw more boost with a 088 turbo than anyone else here has as far as I've ever read about, and I'm running a huge intercooler. I really miss my turbo motor, but atleast I have it running again for now.
I haven't heard back from my contact at cometic for some time now. I don't know if he's trying to tell me to leave him alone or what. He said he'd get it done but it honestly isn't looking good thus far.
What we need to do is get a real tally of people who would use them if they were available on the market to buy. I think cometic would sell the crap out of them if we could prove they are the answer to IDIs head gasket failures.

 

[ocnorb]

I saw more boost with a 088 turbo than anyone else here has as far as I've ever read about, and I'm running a huge intercooler.

What we need to do is get a real tally of people who would use them if they were available on the market to buy. I think cometic would sell the crap out of them if we could prove they are the answer to IDIs head gasket failures.

1. How much boost did you see?

2. Count me in. I will be tearing into mine in the near future to change the cam and install studs... so far I have been lucky not to lift a head on the stock bolts.

My 088 and intercooler only pushes about 13 psi, but I haven't really loaded it since the water/**** was installed.

 

[gonecrazyi]

Id probably be in depending on price. What would have to be done to install them?

 

[Black dawg]

Are head gaskets really that failure prone on these engines?