Hard Start Issues

[RyanMcD]

Hey all, I apologize in advance for the long post, but figured I'd give as much detail as possible.

I'm a semi-new owner of a 1993 7.3 with factory turbo. Having a few issues at the moment and have a feeling they might all be related, but I'm turning to the experts for a little help!

The current problems (in the order they've occurred):
-Began noticing a small amount of fuel leaking on the driveway after driving... a wet spot about 4 inches in diameter.
-Fuel leak has gradually gotten worse over the last couple of weeks, and is now about 2 feet in diameter.
-Took the truck out one day for about a 15 mile drive, stopped for an hour, and the truck wouldn't start. Took 5-10 minutes of cranking off and on (waiting for the starter to cool) before it finally started back up.
-Took the truck out last weekend and noticed it was putting out some black smoke and running a little rough. The truck has never smoked before.
-Now, every time the truck is warm, it does not like to start.
-Cold starts have never been instant like I hear from other people, but it usually starts within 10-15 seconds.

Where I'm at so far:
-Having trouble tracking the leak down. From the bottom of the truck, it drips off of the starter and also from the bell-housing.
-Looking up top, the filter/filter housing are dry.
-Based on previous posts, I placed a piece of paper under the IP while running the truck, but the paper came out dry.
-The return lines and injectors don't appear to be leaking, but I'm having difficulty seeing the back two on the passenger side under the turbo.
-Pouring luke warm water on the IP after getting hot makes the truck start like normal.
-Previous owner claimed the IP and injectors were replaced two years ago, supposedly still under warranty.
-My wait to start light usually only stays lit for around 2 seconds, even after sitting overnight. Doesn't even light up when warm.

Questions:
-Will replacing the return lines require removing the turbo? How difficult is that?
-Previous owner (a mechanic I'm still able to contact) suggested replacing the lift pump, could this be the issue even if cooling down the IP works?
-Any other thoughts? Really not wanting to pony up the money for an IP right now, but it might be the only option.

As always, I really appreciate any help!

 

[79jasper]

You need a new ip. Plain and simple. Don't cheap out either.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[IDIoit]

as posted IP is toast.
the heat soak is the tell tale
when you replace IP, go ahead and do a return line kit too

your new IP will be as good as the shop you buy from, don't cheap out like jasper said, it will only make you do it again in the near future.

 

[RyanMcD]

That hurts to hear, but thanks for the quick replies! I take it you guys recommend Moose?

 

[79jasper]

Yes.

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[icanfixall]

This does sound like the injection pump is going bad but that does not explain the fuel leak. Are all the 4 hard line clamps in place on the lines? No, the turbo wil not require removal to replace the return lines. Seeing the fuel leak is dripping off the starter tells me the fuel leak is on top of the engine somewhere. Any fuel or oil leaks on top end up leaking out the back of the valley pan thru a hole made into the block. It can ONLY run down the starter side of the engine. It can't drip down the drivers side because there is a wall of cast iron keeping that from happening. The drain in the valley pan goes thru a tunnel and that opening is a square hole thru the valley pan fastener under the turbo. Go to ebay and look at any valley pan or bare block to see what I spoke of here.

 

[riotwarrior]

Clean off the engine really good. Steam it...makes findjng leaks much easier.

IP replacement is what you need and unless in 2 years that truck has gone 100k it was a crappy IP if it was replaced as informed.

Mel at Conestoga or Justin at http://idiperformance.com/ both offer decent products and have followers.

My theory....they are on opisite sides of US so pick the closer one lol

Seeing that it appears that the replacement IP is toast it might be a good idea to at the least send injectors in for cleaning and pop testing.

Once you replace IP it will need to be timed

 

[RyanMcD]

Thanks for all of the help guys. The truck got to the point that it wouldn't start even cold earlier last week.

I finally got a chance to really look at it this weekend and have uncovered some new things...

-First, I discovered the fuel leaks on the return lines at injector #7 and #5.
-After doing some reading, I found that whoever last did the return lines ran them completely wrong. They had capped off the connection at fuel filter and essentially left the entire passenger side of the block dead-headed.
-Just for fun, I replaced the return lines today using the NA hose configuration and after lots of cranking to refill the lines, the truck now starts like a champ, hot or cold. Crank times are usually about a second, so I'm really pleased with that.
-Additionally, not sure if I bumped something while working on it or what, but the WTS light now stays on for what seems like a normal amount of time (5ish seconds?) instead of 1-2 seconds. Don't know if anyone can explain that.

However, I have a different problem now. Idle is extremely rough and the truck shakes quite a bit until you give it gas, where it immediately smooths out. From a little bit of research, this sounds like possibly an injector or do you guys still think the IP needs replacement? Maybe timing? I find it hard to believe that improperly run return lines would have caused so many issues that didn't show up when I first bought the truck (~200 miles ago).

Thoughts? Again, thanks for all of your input!

 

[joeblack5]

Can anybody measure anything on the IP that verifies hot soak problems?
Thanks
later J

 

[Wvdirtroad]

Thanks for all of the help guys. The truck got to the point that it wouldn't start even cold earlier last week.

I finally got a chance to really look at it this weekend and have uncovered some new things...

-First, I discovered the fuel leaks on the return lines at injector #7 and #5.
-After doing some reading, I found that whoever last did the return lines ran them completely wrong. They had capped off the connection at fuel filter and essentially left the entire passenger side of the block dead-headed.
-Just for fun, I replaced the return lines today using the NA hose configuration and after lots of cranking to refill the lines, the truck now starts like a champ, hot or cold. Crank times are usually about a second, so I'm really pleased with that.
-Additionally, not sure if I bumped something while working on it or what, but the WTS light now stays on for what seems like a normal amount of time (5ish seconds?) instead of 1-2 seconds. Don't know if anyone can explain that.

However, I have a different problem now. Idle is extremely rough and the truck shakes quite a bit until you give it gas, where it immediately smooths out. From a little bit of research, this sounds like possibly an injector or do you guys still think the IP needs replacement? Maybe timing? I find it hard to believe that improperly run return lines would have caused so many issues that didn't show up when I first bought the truck (~200 miles ago).

Thoughts? Again, thanks for all of your input!

Way I see it is this.. if they installed the return lines wrong.. makes you wonder what else was done wrong. Rough idle to me sounds like air intrusion. If you have leaking fuel in areas then air can penetrate near those leaks. If it were me, I would pull the injectors and have them pop tested to make sure they are all in working order, and then pick up a quality return kit for Mel, Russ etc and reseal the injectors (if theyre good) with new copper washers and then install new O-rings, caps, lines and clamps all the way around. May also not hurt to check the fuel line olives in the filter to IP line (provided it hasn't been changed out like mine was) and then on the driver side rear block near the return line 'block' area if you engine has one. There is an olive there as well if it does.

 

[Wvdirtroad]

Can anybody measure anything on the IP that verifies hot soak problems?
Thanks
later J

May want to start your own thread. If you're referring to heat soak issues on an IP after the engine has had time to cool down from running, I'm not aware of an official test. If you're having issues with it starting in this instance, you can see if a little luke warm water on the IP housing makes a difference. Ill let someone else chime in on the official way to conduct that 'test'.