Glow plug troubles... again

Thewespaul

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I did quite a bit of digging into this subject when I developed my glow plug harness kits, I use a white Rodgers relay rated at 600 amp inrush and a fusible link. A good fuse would work there, or even better an auto-resetting thermal breaker, but I went with the fusible links for the simplicity, cleanliness and cheapness over the other options. Also, a fuse or breaker is really another component to the circuit, and despite proper due diligence those components can fail on their own without there being anything at fault in the circuit, in my experience fusible links don’t tend to fail on there own for no reason, fuses seem to have quite of bit of reliability issues, breakers not as much but do cost significantly more than a fusible link, but they will all achieve the same end.
 

IDIBRONCO

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Which frankly could have been my issue as well. It could have been an age issue.
The first time that I pulled a trailer with my 81 F150 after dark, the tail light fuse blew out after about 45 minutes of running the lights. I eased another couple of miles into the next town so I could pull over off the highway. I had extra fuses with me so I replaced that fuse and I haven't had any issues with it since then. I assume that it was the original fuse and just got weak. It happens.
 

firehonomichl

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I did quite a bit of digging into this subject when I developed my glow plug harness kits, I use a white Rodgers relay rated at 600 amp inrush and a fusible link. A good fuse would work there, or even better an auto-resetting thermal breaker, but I went with the fusible links for the simplicity, cleanliness and cheapness over the other options. Also, a fuse or breaker is really another component to the circuit, and despite proper due diligence those components can fail on their own without there being anything at fault in the circuit, in my experience fusible links don’t tend to fail on there own for no reason, fuses seem to have quite of bit of reliability issues, breakers not as much but do cost significantly more than a fusible link, but they will all achieve the same end.

hey Wes do you have a entire kit for the glow plugs? Or just the harness?
 

aggiediesel01

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What does your data say the safe load for 4ga should be? Honestly don't know if it's copper or aluminum, it's whatever the parts store had on the shelf for pre-made starter cable.

For automotive applications, commonly used insulation is PVC or cross-linked polyethylene (XLPE or SGX) they are usually temperature rated to around 100C. XLPE has a little higher temp rating so it's also a bit more expensive. I'm not sure if aluminum conductors have ever been used for automotive applications because of the known issues with vibrations and corrosion. For PVC insulation and a 20C ambient (~68F) 4awg PVC is rated rise to its 90C limit with 95amps flowing through it continuously. If the ambient rises, the allowable continuously allowed current goes down b/c the insulation is rated at 90C. Conversely, if the ambient goes down more current is allowed for the same reason. It's complicated in an engine compartment where the temps vary so much because the insulation and ambient temp are the limiting factors. I've seen some references say that 4awg is good for nearly double that current. I would disagree with this for a continuous application but for <30sec at 40deg ambient I would say it's more than adequate. The GP controller should reduce the glow time based on the temperature sensor it uses so it should basically self regulate the current drawn based on the temp of the engine. Temperature de-rating curves are common to find and these factors are usually published with their corresponding ampacity charts. But temperature over-rating curves based on ambient don't seem to be around. I still haven't been able to find a reference that shows or explains the heating period of a cable related to in-rush current to see how much and for how long it could be "overdrawn" before it hits it's temp limit.

For those who have converted to a manual control system, I would think that most don't use the GPs after the first start of the day or if they do it's not a full 10sec cycle. It would be important to understand that using an extended interval to heat the GPs when the engine is hot could potentially overheat the wiring if the under-hood ambient is high.
 

franklin2

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Just to set the record straight, I don't like to call it arguing, but a good debate.

It was mentioned in post #31 about the failure rate of a fuse compared to a fusible link. I would agree with this and leads me to think a fusible link is "more hardy" than a fuse. I know no one has found any official amperage versus time curves for fusible links, but it's my gut feeling the amperage would go even higher with a fusible link before it burnt in two.

I don't think there is anything magical about a fusible link and that it would be any safer or unsafe than a fuse. It's all in the sizing of the fuse or the fusible link.

And what has not been talked about yet. One down side to fuses and fusible links, they cause voltage drop in the circuit. They all do it to varying degrees. But the benefits outweigh the drawbacks sometimes.
 

Selahdoor

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So that would go over to a push button.. how long would you hold it cuz if you heat them to long it will burn the GP up right?
The GPs have a certain number of cycles in them.They are essentially just little electric heaters. And all electric heaters eventually burn up the elements. These are no different.

This is one of the reasons FOR going to a manual setup. The original setup turns on the GPs EVERY time the key is turned from off to on.

Once I get it started in the morning, every single time, the rest of the day that I start the truck, a GP cycle is wasted. Also, when I am just working on the truck, testing things, etc... Yep wasted cycles.

But as for burning them out from leaving them on too long... I recall seeing here a post by someone showing one of our beru plugs being hooked directly to a battery. All by itself. And left for a LONG time. I can't remember if it was all day, or a couple days, or what. But it was a LOT longer than you'd expect. Thing is, once he unplugged it. Plugged it in the next day, and it was still good to go.

Everyone's truck is a little different. Some need more GP, some need less. Best thing you can do is to set up the manual system. Then experiment to see how much GP YOUR engine needs to get started. It will change with the seasons. But what you are going for, is not to figure out the absolute minimum you can squeak by with, to get the engine started. Now you are putting unnecessary wear and tear on everything. Do figure that out. But say for instance, you run them for 5 seconds, and the truck starts, but has a hard time starting. Add a couple seconds to that. Keep adding, until the truck starts easy. It's cheaper to replace the GPs, than the starter, and/or the batteries, etc.

I think way too much 'mystery' is attributed to the GPs, And way too many graphs and numbers bandied about and used to bludgeon one another with. LOL

Bottom line... real world... they are little heaters. Try to get the best ones. I think the Beru fits the bill, well enough. Hook them up good and solid. Make sure they get steady solid juice. And quit worrying about getting the exact length of the exact gauge of wire, and all the rest. Use a solenoid that will do the job. Put in a fuse, or fusible link, or just wire it direct. Whatever works for you. And trigger your solenoid with a cheap momentary on pushbutton.
 

79jasper

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I don't think that was a beru plug, iirc. I know it's been done with a ac delco 60g for a 6.2/6.5.

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captainjerry001

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Ok guys so I have an 89 f250 7.3 with a ZF5 and The glow plugs are about 8 months old I tested them over the weekend and the glow plug harness is new and I put a glow plug relay on Sunday and still the WTS light comes on for about 2 seconds and click click click click for a bit and it’s hard starting... am I missing something?!

I have a 1992 F350 with 7.3 IDI engine. The factory glow plug controller activates every time the engine is started, even when the engine is already warmed up. That means the glow plugs are energized much too often and burn out too often. I bought a glow plug controller bypass kit, and bypassed the controller. The kit includes a push button that is mounted on the dash. Now, when the engine is cold, I push the button and count to 7, then start the engine. It always starts instantly. I can now drive all over town, stopping at stores, etc, then start the engine without pushing the push button to activate the glow plugs. As long as the engine is warm, the glow plugs are not needed for starting. You can find glow plug controller bypass kits on the internet.
 

DaveBen

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If it is not very cold outside, you should be able to start the engine, all day, without needing the glow plugs.
 
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