Fuel Filter light AFTER Filter change- NO fuel, no start

[derjackistweg]

Hi guys,

I recently had my "new" (to me) 1993 E350 7.3 IDI N/A to the shop and while doing some things they replaced the fuel filter at the Motor to a new Motorcraft one. I don´t have the No. here, it was laying in the car, when I bought it, so I guess it is the correct one.

30 miles after the Change, the fule filter light came on without any issue. But now it does´nt start. After parking for a hour it started once and run 2-3 seconds, shut off and was not anymore able to start.

There is enough fuel in the tank, half full. GP are new, GP Relais also. Temps outside are around 10 degrees C and above.


What I did so far, by checking:
- fuel is in the FIRST filter near the Frame after the tank. I changed it, but it does not seem to be an issue
- fuel is inside the fuel filter at the Motor. I opend water seperator and fuel came out.
- though I dismounted the fuel filter and turned it (I disconnected the fuel hard lines left and right)- no fuel coming out. Maybe not filled until the top? I just bought the tool to dismount a filter. Will check the filter tomorrow.
- with the 2 hardlines, from the fuel filter, disconnected I cranked the Motor. My guess was there should be fuel spraying out of one line coming from the fuel pump. No fuel.
- finally all connected I disconnected the hardline from Cylinder 8 and then 7 to see if- while cranking- if fuel will be supplied to the injectors. No fuel supplied BUT fuel dropping out.

So to me it looks like fuel supply is "open", meaning no obvious failure. But it no fuel is coming up to the injectors.

The Van has just about 100k miles, though it burns oil, that can be smelled. The engine got full power lately with easy going 70m/h (it is a Quigley with a high roof).

If it is really no fuel delivery it can be the fuel pump, Injection Pump. Fuel pump is an mechanic one, right? FP should deliver when cranking, right?
IP: I one had the issue on a Diesel engine, that the electro magnetic valve t shut off the engine was defect and the issue for no start. What should I check at the IP?


Finally: Where should I start checking and in which way? I will check both filters again, maybe again change the main filter.

 

[riotwarrior]

Sounds like you removed the fuel line to the filter head on the engine, and no fuel comes out while cranking correct?

Also you mentioned a FIRST fuel filter under the van which had fuel in it correct?

I'd suggest changing the FIRST filter or cleaning it and attempt the same test as before and see if you get fuel from the LIFT pump on the side of the engine up to the fuel filter head on the engine, as to me sounds like that is the problem

If no fuel after cleaning FIRST filter it could be the lift pump itself.

Hope that helps

 

[OLDBULL8]

Fuel filter lite is ON because the IP is pulling a vacuum. Like you said Al, check for fuel at the filter with line from lift pump disconnected.

 

[derjackistweg]

Hi,

I checked today if fuel is coming out of the line coming directly from the fuel pump. I disconnected the line that goes into the fuel filter and started some seconds. No fuel.

Looks like the fuel pump- correct? It is though an electric one. The red wire has a fuse and the red line goes to a connection at the GP relay. This line has only power when the GP relay is working- seems curious to me. But THIS is not the issue as this worked since thousands of miles.


Is the Fuel pump a stock one? Can I easily exchange that one for a test? Can I use a different one from another Diesel engine (as I definitely will not find an Ford one on a junk yard in Germany )

http://www.derjackistweg.de/news-aktuelles/issues/

 

[riotwarrior]

Hello, attachments not working. Get a photobucket account and upload to there then copy the pictures IMG tag into your thread, this makes it work fine.

Stock is a mechanical lift pump on the RIGHT/passengers side of engine near the front below the thermostat housing.

I can't tell if you have the stock pump and an electric one, if so this could be a major malfunction.

How is your OIL level? Does your oil smell like diesel? If so then the electric could be funneling fuel into the stock pump past a bad diaphragm and right into your crank case.

We need to know whats going on better through pictures, I'd suggest photobucket as I said.

No you cannot use a different fuel pump from another engine.

Check the FAQ and TECH articles for info on fuel pumps there are a couple writeups on electric pumps and so forth.

Good luck.

 

[OLDBULL8]

Your attachments don't work, so we can't see what your talking about. If the red wire you mention is connected to the GP relay on the battery side of it, then it would be OK there, they are just taking battery power from there, but has to go to a switch someplace or the pump would run all the time. If the red wire is hooked like the pic, then it just activates the GP cycle, it doesn't power the pump.

Try to upload your pics again so we can see them.

 

[derjackistweg]

Hi,

thanks so far. I inserted a new link regarding the Photos.

My next steps will be to check if there is a blockage from tank to first fuel filter below the cabine. There is no fuel (just a cub full) coming out of the unscrewed filter. Should there be coming fuel until the is no more in the tank? Thought while changing the filter air will come into this line ...


And next is the fuel pump. I cannot believe that there is no fuel coming when "inigtion" is on and while cranking/starting. I will take it out, check it visually and then connecting to an (external) battery to see if this thing is pumping.

 

[icanfixall]

The mechanical fuel pumps make about 5 to 7 lbs of pressure. So any electric fuel pump that puts out that much pressure will work. Can you hear the electric pump running or not. If the fuel tank at least 1/2 full. If the tank is around 1/4 full its not going to suck the fuel out. These tanks have a problem with broken suction lines. Its called the shower head because it looks like one. they are plastic and break off and then the last 5 gallons can't be sucked out of the tank. That might be the only problem if your that low on fuel. Or the pump is broken.

 

[derjackistweg]

The mechanical fuel pumps make about 5 to 7 lbs of pressure. So any electric fuel pump that puts out that much pressure will work. Can you hear the electric pump running or not. If the fuel tank at least 1/2 full. If the tank is around 1/4 full its not going to suck the fuel out. These tanks have a problem with broken suction lines. Its called the shower head because it looks like one. they are plastic and break off and then the last 5 gallons can't be sucked out of the tank. That might be the only problem if your that low on fuel. Or the pump is broken.

The tank is 3/4 full or so. It was full less than 70 miles before.

I cannot hear the fuel pump "summing". Maybe because it's gone but i was not focused on that so far. Will check tomorrow. My guess is it's not working.
Thanks for the info on the fuel pressure the mechanic pump does, very helpful.

 

[Agnem]

Let's see if we can get some facts. One question that needs to be answered, because it is unclear to me is....

Do we have a mechanical fuel pump, or an electric fuel pump, or both? Let's define this so we can move forward.

Also.... these trucks did not come with a fuel filter mounted to the frame under the cab. We need to try and identify what this is. It might be a filter, or it could be an in-line electric pump. Clarification on these issues would be helpful.

 

[derjackistweg]

Let's see if we can get some facts. One question that needs to be answered, because it is unclear to me is....

Do we have a mechanical fuel pump, or an electric fuel pump, or both? Let's define this so we can move forward.

Also.... these trucks did not come with a fuel filter mounted to the frame under the cab. We need to try and identify what this is. It might be a filter, or it could be an in-line electric pump. Clarification on these issues would be helpful.

Hi

The first filter is a fuel one : fleetguard: fs19599. The truck was an ambulance in Norway. Maybe the did/change something.

The truck is new to me, my first US Car also. Have you seen the picture in the link above? ..../issue.
As far as I can see the fuel line comes from the back directly to the fuel pump. Between the first filter and the pump is nothing else (at least I have not seen anything, I am pretty sure). So I think, if the electric pump is not original, it's the only one.

I will check if there is a blockage between the tank and the first filter (maybe IN the tank), I don't think so- but this need to be sure. Maybe suck with a transparent soft line ...

 

[riotwarrior]

In this image the line with the brass fitting on left of fuel filter should go down to the factory MECHANICAL fuel pump, if the van is as stock, which is located on the passengers side of engine below altternator and thermostat housing.

You must be registered for see images attach

In this image looking down I cannot see anything to what is going on except what looks like a striped resistor of some sorts

You must be registered for see images attach

I'm not sure what we are supposed to see here????

Where on the frame is your filter/pump you are referring to? Are you able to get a picture of it?

Here is a thread I started and it has images of the mechanical fuel pump and it shows an electical pump install.
http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?59242-Converting-mechanical-fuel-pump-to-electric

We want to help but there is a bit of language barrier here.

Al

 

[derjackistweg]

In this image the line with the brass fitting on left of fuel filter should go down to the factory MECHANICAL fuel pump, if the van is as stock, which is located on the passengers side of engine below altternator and thermostat housing.

You must be registered for see images attach

In this image looking down I cannot see anything to what is going on except what looks like a striped resistor of some sorts

You must be registered for see images attach

I'm not sure what we are supposed to see here????

Where on the frame is your filter/pump you are referring to? Are you able to get a picture of it?

Here is a thread I started and it has images of the mechanical fuel pump and it shows an electical pump install.
http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?59242-Converting-mechanical-fuel-pump-to-electric

We want to help but there is a bit of language barrier here.

Al

I don't have seen a mechanic pump, as you shoved in the other thread.
It's hard to see but on the second photo you can imagine the electric pump connected behind the metal plate. The black 2 inch thick cylinder. You can see the red wire coming from it and the connected short soft line.

 

[icanfixall]

Al.. I believe this engine has an electric lift pump. I don't se anything that looks like any pump lines or parts where the mechanical should be. Looking at the pic of the filter it appears this engine has the van filter set up on it. I see that filter inlet line ends where the white rag is and then its a rubber hose from there to somewhere.. Time to see if the electric pump works.

 

[riotwarrior]

Gary he has a VAN that's what this engine is in...

Here I"ve flipped your image and circled a couple different items.

RED no idea what that is,

GREEN I think is a electric fuel pump.

Hope I've got this sorted out, I enlarged the image to get a better idea and then shrunk it back down to size.

You must be registered for see images attach

I'm thinking that the green circle has the electric fuel pump in it, I could not see any indication of a stock fuel pump at all.

If you can follow that wire for the pump you should be able to disconnect it and attach to a + lead and hopefully get it to pump. I'd use a alligator clip for test purposes to start with.

It could be a ground wire on the pump is off there are just too many variables to know for sure without more information

Al