Frustrating Issue, truck starts and dies.

[mjs2011]

I just got my truck back this fall after it sat all summer in the middle of a WVO conversion. We finally got the conversion done a couple weeks ago, and I have been driving it since. Ive got about 1000 miles on WVO so far. The WVO system is very well done, with an auxilary tank, heated lines, a heat exhcanger, electric wvo fuel pump, and a heated filter. It runs just fine on both oil and diesel, and has not died on me yet when switching between the two.

Now to the issue. I put in a new set of Beru's on Friday, thanks to Gary. I did not plug it in on Friday night and the temperature dipped to around 35. Saturday morning, I go to start it. I cycled the plugs twice, then turned the key and it fired up, the high idle kicked in, i feathered the throttle while it got to its feet, but about 2 seconds after turning the key, it dies entirely. Just like it got no fuel at all. So I ran the glow plugs a few more times and cranked, and after about 15 seconds of cranking, it started to cough a little bit. Stop, sit a minute then try again, and after cranking another 15 seconds, it was running under its own power.

Now this morning, same as yesterday, I did not plug it in. Go to start it this morning, its about 45 degrees. I run the plugs twice and crank it, and it fires right up, high idle kicking in, then it dies again. So i kept running the plugs and cranking, but nothing, It doesnt even sound like its coughing, its like it isnt getting fuel at all. I ended up stopping when it started to crank slow, and I put the charger on it and plugged in the block heater.

Haven't tried cracking the injectors yet. I did notice a little bit of smoke coming from the hood vent next to the windshield. It smelled like electric smoke, and I thought maybe the glow plug wires were melting? Felt them and they werent even that warm. The smoke was coming from about the center of the engine, under the air cleaner. Better not be a starter.....

But could that be it, a weak starter that isn't cranking fast enough?
Or do I have air intrusion somewhere, that only shows its face on startup.

 

[OLDBULL8]

Are ya trying to start on diesel or WVO? Did ya purge the WVO before last shut down? Ya should of jumped under there and felt how hot the starter was, bet it was real HOT with all that cranking and batteries run down, that'll burn up a starter in no time. Just asking.

 

[mjs2011]

yep, purged after shutting off oil both times. Maybe not so coincidentally, I had run on wvo both nights before these issues. I have a return valve on a seperate switch, so after I switch to diesel, i let it return to the oil tank for another 30 seconds, then try to run on diesel for another 30 seconds before shutting down. Maybe thats not long enough?

Come to think of it, I dont know if i have had this issue the day after running only on diesel.

 

[OLDBULL8]

One minute run time at idle speed is not long enough. Realize how little fuel is used at idle, that length of time wouldn't even empty the filter of WVO. Hope your starter is OK. Let it cool for a couple of hours, really HOT melts the Varnish (wire insulation) then it will short the wires (starter windings) together, then, NEW Starter.

 

[mjs2011]

Well, its usually one minute at driving speed, and I have a seperate filter for oil and diesel. The only common line between oil and diesel is the line between the fuel selector valve and the IP. I may have to up my purge time nonetheless.

 

[icanfixall]

Really feel you need to change the starter and purge about 5 minutes before you shut down the engine. You can't hurt things by a longer purge but shorter.. Well maybe its already too late to save the starter. Smoke is a telling thing. Sorry to say that too. When the voltage drops in the batterys the amps go very high and that burns out the starters fast. Usually once the smoke starts is usually done. I know thats how one of my starters failed years ago. Big cloud of smoke. Ran the engine for 7 hours and finally shut it down. Would not even try to crank. starter well done said the rebuilder... A slow cranking engine is less likely to start because it can't make enough heat from compressing the air to ignite the fuel. Quickly compressed air heats up fast. Slowly compressed air does not.

 

[bbjordan]

That smoke may be coming off the glow plug controller. It sits at the back of the engine. There is a big metal wavy resistor on it. With all that glow plug action, it probably got pretty hot. I've seen mine smoke. Its gets crud on it.

Air intrusion is definitely a possibility, since it fires up, and then dies. I would expect your electric fuel pump should take care of that, or is it only for the WVO?

 

[mjs2011]

Electric is only for wvo, but I'm wishing I would have got rid of the mech pump and blocked it off. We thought about it, but my dad didn't like the idea of only having one pump. He was worried about it failing and leaving me stranded.

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[mjs2011]

This morning, same thing. Not plugged in, ran the glow plugs twice, fired right up. It ran for maybe three seconds then just dies. I didn't run any wvo yesterday, but did drive the truck. So why is it not getting fuel in the cold weather?

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[Agnem]

Sounds like classic air intrusion to me. Time for some clear vinyl hose.

 

[mjs2011]

Where would the be the best place to start. I replaced the Orings on the injector returns not too long ago.

Since the engine is only running for about three seconds, how close would you estimate the leak to be? right next to the ip? Or at the fuel filter?

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[icanfixall]

Most likely the fuel and air leak is before the filter. So if you filter head has the bleeder valve line on it thats where I would place the clear fuel line. Also might try cranking the engine and pressing the schrader valve on the filter head to see if fuel or air bleeds off.

 

[mjs2011]

So when I got back from class, I went out and gave it another look. I first pushed the scrader valve to see if the fuel filter had any pressure, and nothing. I then jumped the solenoid, and after about a second, there was a steady stream coming out, just as wide as the schrader valve and shooting a good distance. No air bubbles or anything like that, just fuel.

I then moved moved the throttle on the IP by hand. I would open it up, then let it drop back to the high idle stop. The noise that I heard is kind of hard to describe. It was like liquid whooshing in a container, combined with the noise you hear when you turn the heater from vent to defrost, the noise the flapper makes. Sorry if that isnt explanatory enough.

It was coming from the drivers side of the engine compartment, at the back of the engine. Is that normal, is it just a vaccuum pump I am hearing, or is that the sound of an IP with no fuel?

 

[icanfixall]

Is the valley pan under the injection pump wet looking. If so then the injection pump is leaking fuel from one of three places. Could be the weap hole. Could be the drivers side plunger or the rear fuel inlet feed line fitting. There are a couple of o rings at the back of the pump too but lets not rush into those yet.

 

[mjs2011]

Yes the valley pan is wet and I know the IP has a leak. I had a mechanic kook it over this summer when I bought it and he told me that I had a pinhole leak. He said if it was his truck, he would let it be since it wasn't leaking too bad, so that's what I did. He mentioned selling me a used IP if I changed my mind, but I refused.

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