freeze 12

[vegas39]

I replaced the clutch on my a/c compressor yesterday but I am low on freon, system is original R12. I have heard in the past that something called freeze12 was some kind of direct drop in. Anyone know if this is true?
I would like to avoid converting to 134 if at all possible. Thanks

 

[sle2115]

I've heard the same thing, but never used it. I'd say go lay your hands on a bottle and read it before you install it. I think even WalMart has is (they did at one point) if you want to do a little label reading.

 

[icanfixall]

It would be better to ask a shop that does R12 recharges about the mixing of differant freons... Once you have done that most shops will not work on your systems because its cross contaminated. It really ruins there systems so they will test yours before they pull out the charge and ruin their tanks.

 

[sassyrel]

if you add freeze 12--and you dont tell the shop--the epa will be banging on your door--and IF you tell them--they wont touch it--as ican said----either find some one that has a shot of r12--or have some one take your r12--and do the changeover to 134A, it aint hard at all--having been in the air bis for over 35 yrs--the epa gets a bit sticky

 

[david85]

Sounds like a hydrocarbon refrigerant.

First thing is that mixing R12 freon with anything other than R12 is illegal and carries a hefty fine thanks to the tree hugging EPA.

Yes, it probably would work from a performance stand point if the properties of the two refrigerants are similar, but you would not be on your own servicing the system from now on if you contaminate the R12 you already have.

Most AC shops refuse to use hydrocarbon refrigerants and probably would turn you in if you contaminated their supply of freon. The prices they charge here in canada to convert to 134a is just stupid, so they discourage anything other than the service they offer.

My system was completely empty when I got my truck so there was no legal issue there. I'm running a hydrocarbon refrigerant called HC-12 duracool. It works, its less leak prone as 134a or even R12, and is really cheap to buy (and you use less of it). The company claims that it works well when mixed with R12 or R134a, but warns that such mixing is illegal.

It may not be legal to use hydrocarbon refrigerants everywhere though, but I don't care. Hydrocarbon refrigerant is the norm in europe and theres no reason to restrict it's use other than to protect an existing industry.

 

[icanfixall]

Propane is a very good "freon". It will cool better than 134 or R12 but.... Its a bomb up front of the car... So was the Ford Pinto gas tank in the rear.... So if you were able to do all your own ac work who cares what it has running in it. The big steam generating plant turbine builders and boiler manufacturing companys knew that the water that is changed into steam, then sent to the turbines was not the best heat tranfer agent. Amonia is but if there was a tube leak (was all the time happening) the amonia escaping to atmosphere would kill anyone down wind of it... Its really bad stuff but it transfer the heat very well at a cost to life... I use R12 on all the old trucks I have. Its easier for me to work with that 134.

 

[david85]

You can't use pure propane in these trucks even if you wanted to. The pressure is too high and would overheat the compressor. HC12 is a blend of propane, isobutane and butane with other 'additives' to get the pressure range right. My truck only takes 4oz and change of the stuff if I remember right to get the full equivalent charge. In theory, its enough to make a brief flash, but there just isn't enough BTUs in the system to cause a significant hazzard IMO.

 

[FARMFUEL]

Here in TX, you have to have a license to buy freeze12. www.macsw.org is the place to get the license to buy both. In Mexico, they still sell 30lb cylinders of the stuff; they still make it. Smog? Where? *** is smog? Mexico? naw...

 

[Papabear]

i can get a/c refrigerant from my local NAPA no questions asked (small town friends with the guys)

 

[RLDSL]

Freeze 12 and all other supposed drop in refrigerants are not really drop in refrigerants. They earned that name because they were compatable with the residual r12 mineral oil in the system so the system does not require flushing, and that is the extent of it, period. Meaning that no other internal modifications need to be done to accomodate said refrigerant, it doesn't mean that you can plop it in with r12. All supposed drop in refrigerants are required by law to have their own unique fittings so as to identify them visually to any AC technician so they will not contaminate their equipment. The funny thing about that is that most of the places pimping freeze 12 and autofrost and all those other incarnations of the "drop in " refrigerants don't even sell the fittings, most can't even tell you where to get the things and just try to buy the fittings to adapt from them to an AC manifold gauge set, good luck. The manufacturers of those refrigerants have done basically nothing to see that their products can be brought into compliance.

As far as an end user, it's just not worth the hassle and the fines involved just to try to save a few bucks up front.

You're better off just paying for someone to top off the r12, or if you want you can take the test online and then you can buy a can or two yourself and recharge it, or just change it over to r134a, the stuff isn't all that bad. I have ways of getting plenty cold duct temps out of r134a to where I don't need to look back to r12

 

[riphip]

I've still got about 25# in my drum of freeze 12. Don't go with it!! The sales said you can top off R12 but it's a lie. Main component in it is 134A. It is a blend and will contaminate the mineral oil in your R12 system. Best to change to 134A using a POE oil. Use a non-chlorinated spray brake cleaner to flush components. Your system uses 8 oz of oil. Pull the evaporator and condenser to flush and backflush using compressed air to move the brake cleaner through and out until no residue on white cloth. Do not flush compressor or lines as the small amount of mineral oil will not be a problem for the POE oil. Should take about 80% of original charge capacity for 134A. Our old truck's condensers work really well with 134A. Don't forget to change the orifice tube (metering device) using the blue one. The old one will be a bear to remove usually.

Rick

 

[HammerDown]

I put a few oz's or Freeze-12 in my older Vette...works great... Brrrrrrrr
Think I put some in my truck too.

 

[MUDKICKR]

duracool, if done right will put frost out the vents, i saw it on a 96 f350, customer kept saying its putting out a foggy mist but it was getting that cold. i saw it put frost out the vents. the faster you went down the interstate the colder it got until it frost out. but it took a while to do it. i would suggert duracool.

 

[david85]

duracool, if done right will put frost out the vents, i saw it on a 96 f350, customer kept saying its putting out a foggy mist but it was getting that cold. i saw it put frost out the vents. the faster you went down the interstate the colder it got until it frost out. but it took a while to do it. i would suggert duracool.

Mine isn't quite that good, but once when the compressor cycling switch failed in the on position, EVERY AC PART UNDER THE HOOD on the low pressure side had about 1/16" if ice on it in the dead of summer.

My main problem is my low engine RPM that doesn't pull enough refrigerant through the orifice tube when cruising on the highway. Might try a variable orifice tube some day, but for now its good enough.