any other item cooled by the rad? like auto trans cooler even though i know droopy is manual...
Doopy the Plow Truck gets a Cummins 4BT
- Thread starter Darrin Tosh
- Start date
Well, I hope this isn't the case, but overheating with oil/water contamination makes me think the head may be cracked!
I certainly hope not, but the oil and soot got into the coolant from somewhere.
Hang in there Darrin. We're all pulling for you to get it figured out and back on the road with no more problems.
Heath
I certainly hope not, but the oil and soot got into the coolant from somewhere. Hang in there Darrin. We're all pulling for you to get it figured out and back on the road with no more problems.
Heath
RoyBoy
Diesel Nut
Well, I hope this isn't the case, but overheating with oil/water contamination makes me think the head may be cracked!
Heath
I second this. I've been racking the brain as to where else it can come from. Make sure they PRESSURE test your head at the shop. If they can't, find someone that will.
Dsl_Dog_Treat
I lost my face to the jaws of a poodle
Since the shop gave ya the head back and it wasn't swapping fluids before the build, here's to a gasket playing unfair!
Darrin Tosh
IDI Hound
Thanks for all of the input guys!
I got the head back to day and it passed the Pressure test. The Magniflux showed some cracks but they are very typical for a Cummins head and is no reason not to use it. He also did shave the head, so that may have been my problem even tho it really didn't show up on the head gasket.
So I have bought all new Cummins gaskets and will start putting it all back together tomorrow.
Over the last couple of days I pulled the radiator, flushed it out and reinstalled it, Got the heater core flushed out as well. Got the oil cooler installed with new Cummins Gaskets.
I have to say that this last setback has been very disheartening, and then to not really find a problem to point at I am just putting it back together hoping it was a gasket that I missed.
I just want it fixed and be able to enjoy it for a while, at least we still have not had any plowable snow yet.
Anyway Thanks again Guys!
I got the head back to day and it passed the Pressure test. The Magniflux showed some cracks but they are very typical for a Cummins head and is no reason not to use it. He also did shave the head, so that may have been my problem even tho it really didn't show up on the head gasket.
So I have bought all new Cummins gaskets and will start putting it all back together tomorrow.
Over the last couple of days I pulled the radiator, flushed it out and reinstalled it, Got the heater core flushed out as well. Got the oil cooler installed with new Cummins Gaskets.
I have to say that this last setback has been very disheartening, and then to not really find a problem to point at I am just putting it back together hoping it was a gasket that I missed.
I just want it fixed and be able to enjoy it for a while, at least we still have not had any plowable snow yet.
Anyway Thanks again Guys!
If you've got a long straight edge and some feeler gauges, it might be worth the time to look for any high/low spots on the block's deck. How much did they machine shop need to take off the head to get it flat? Not trying to make you paranoid, just looking for anything that can help narrow down the problem and help you keep Droopy on the road.
Heath
Heath
shoulda left it a stock rebuild.... lol you'll figure it out man.
Any news buddy?
Heath
Heath
Darrin Tosh
IDI Hound
Ok Guys, Sorry it has bee so long to respond, With all of the work that I have been doing on Droopy, I have neglected stuff at the shop. So this week I had to just leave the truck alone, and get some other stuff done. So with that,..and a Computer Crash this week I have not been able to update or do much with the truck.
On top of that we got 6" of snow today, the first plowable snow of the season for us.
Here's the update on Droopy, Had the head pressure checked and magniflux, no real problems some minor cracks but they are non issues. It passed the pressure check, Had it flattened, Put the head back on and still had the same symptoms. Back at square 1!
We did a hydrocarbon test and it failed miserably, there were consistent bubbles in the glass, like a fish tank bubblier.
Here is a short video:
http://rides.webshots.com/video/3064...01950171iCRudx
It slowly turned yellow showing combustion gasses in the antifreeze.
At this point I just need to be able to plow snow, so with the thermostat removed, and cardboard in front of the radiator I figured it would be fine just putting around the car lot for the winter taking care of the plow duties.
Then I decided to throw in a bottle of "K Seal" K-Seal - Permanent Coolant Leak Repair I have used this before with pretty good results. I figured that it would not hurt anything and if it got me through the winter all the better.
I got to the shop this morning pulled Droopy out of the garage, and started plowing. It did GREAT! Love the torque and response of the lil 4 banger! It just chugged along like a tractor. The temp gauge raised off of 130 deg, and the factory gauge moved up as well. I got enough heat out of it to be comfortable in the truck and defrost the windows. After about 30 min of plowing I shut it off and headed to the Auto Auction for the day.
When I got back I finished up plowing with the same good results, I opened the hood, checked the radiator hose and there was NO PRESSURE in the coolant system,...NONE! It has not burped out, the levels were good and I was getting some heat as I was before.
So at this time it appears that the "K Seal" has worked in plugging up my mysterious combustion leak.
Understand that I know this is not a Permanent Fix, but if it gets me through the winter, I will be pleased, Then I can pull the motor and rebuild it this summer.
So I will drive it a little more, do another hydrocarbon test, install a thermostat and see what happens after that.
Thats it for now,..!
On top of that we got 6" of snow today, the first plowable snow of the season for us.
Here's the update on Droopy, Had the head pressure checked and magniflux, no real problems some minor cracks but they are non issues. It passed the pressure check, Had it flattened, Put the head back on and still had the same symptoms. Back at square 1!
We did a hydrocarbon test and it failed miserably, there were consistent bubbles in the glass, like a fish tank bubblier.
Here is a short video:
http://rides.webshots.com/video/3064...01950171iCRudx
It slowly turned yellow showing combustion gasses in the antifreeze.
At this point I just need to be able to plow snow, so with the thermostat removed, and cardboard in front of the radiator I figured it would be fine just putting around the car lot for the winter taking care of the plow duties.
Then I decided to throw in a bottle of "K Seal" K-Seal - Permanent Coolant Leak Repair I have used this before with pretty good results. I figured that it would not hurt anything and if it got me through the winter all the better.
I got to the shop this morning pulled Droopy out of the garage, and started plowing. It did GREAT! Love the torque and response of the lil 4 banger! It just chugged along like a tractor. The temp gauge raised off of 130 deg, and the factory gauge moved up as well. I got enough heat out of it to be comfortable in the truck and defrost the windows. After about 30 min of plowing I shut it off and headed to the Auto Auction for the day.
When I got back I finished up plowing with the same good results, I opened the hood, checked the radiator hose and there was NO PRESSURE in the coolant system,...NONE! It has not burped out, the levels were good and I was getting some heat as I was before.
So at this time it appears that the "K Seal" has worked in plugging up my mysterious combustion leak.
Understand that I know this is not a Permanent Fix, but if it gets me through the winter, I will be pleased, Then I can pull the motor and rebuild it this summer.
So I will drive it a little more, do another hydrocarbon test, install a thermostat and see what happens after that.
Thats it for now,..!
k seal is sealing up my seaping HG on my 86 fight now. been dry for over a year now. had a external leak back of head under higher rpms. glad ya got to use it.
Darrin Tosh
IDI Hound
Thanks for the input guys.
Well guys, I pulled the trigger on a P pumped motor, it should be here a week from Monday.
I am not sure when I will install it, may wait till spring, or if I have some down time with no snow I may install it sooner. Just depends on timing and how the motor looks once it arrives. It is in a frame connected to a radiator so I will be running it and getting it warm, monitoring the water temps, oil pressure, etc before I get it installed.
One problem is that it is an intercooled motor, but there is no intercooler with it. So since I cant use the aftercooler, I may have to just hook it up non intercooled for now until I can install one. Will this be a problem with this motor if with stock injectors? I know that I will have to watch the pyro,...
Since I have just owned VE Pump motors I don't know a lot about the P Pumps. I would like to do a few performance mods but nothing radical. So what do you suggest for P Pump adjustments,.? Looks like there is a 3000RPM Gov Spring for starters, but not a 3200,..?
Also, I assume that I wont be able to use my POD Injectors on the P Pumped motor?
I would like to install the WHC1 turbo on it from the old motor.
It would have been easier to install a VE pump motor, but this was just too good of a deal to pass up.
Thats bout it for now, looks like were getting another 6" of snow tonight, gonna be plowing again tomorrow!
Well guys, I pulled the trigger on a P pumped motor, it should be here a week from Monday.
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I am not sure when I will install it, may wait till spring, or if I have some down time with no snow I may install it sooner. Just depends on timing and how the motor looks once it arrives. It is in a frame connected to a radiator so I will be running it and getting it warm, monitoring the water temps, oil pressure, etc before I get it installed.
One problem is that it is an intercooled motor, but there is no intercooler with it. So since I cant use the aftercooler, I may have to just hook it up non intercooled for now until I can install one. Will this be a problem with this motor if with stock injectors? I know that I will have to watch the pyro,...
Since I have just owned VE Pump motors I don't know a lot about the P Pumps. I would like to do a few performance mods but nothing radical. So what do you suggest for P Pump adjustments,.? Looks like there is a 3000RPM Gov Spring for starters, but not a 3200,..?
Also, I assume that I wont be able to use my POD Injectors on the P Pumped motor?
I would like to install the WHC1 turbo on it from the old motor.
It would have been easier to install a VE pump motor, but this was just too good of a deal to pass up.
Thats bout it for now, looks like were getting another 6" of snow tonight, gonna be plowing again tomorrow!
Ididriver
Full Access Member
Sweet find darrin. I wish I had that kind of luck surfing craigslist.
What's the plans with the current engine after the p pumped one goes in??
What's the plans with the current engine after the p pumped one goes in??
I take it there wasn't a P-pump 6BT available from the same source? 
Sorry, had to ask but, seriously, what is the 4BT coming out of? And, would it be worth your time to rebuild it before putting it in, or are you at a point where you want to make sure it's good for now, throw it in, and call it good?
Sorry, had to ask
but, seriously, what is the 4BT coming out of? And, would it be worth your time to rebuild it before putting it in, or are you at a point where you want to make sure it's good for now, throw it in, and call it good?
argve
Resident Fruitcake
yep Darrin there are 3000 and 4000 gov spring kits avail for the p pump. I had a 3k and on some days you will get 3k max and others you will get 3500 out of her, don't know why the difference from day to day but that is the beauty of mechanical limits - I think it had to do with temps but that is just a wild guess.
Now for turning up the power a bit that is something i know a little about. If you check out the cummins section I have posted up fuel plate grind pictures so that you can sort of make one yourself on the bench grinder or if you have a mill you can do one much better (looks department).
I would think that your injectors from the VE pump will not work since there is a line pressure difference between the two systems - I can't remember what it is but memory wants to say it's like double or close to it so you need to use injectors from each system respectively. The big hosses are the what's called the 370 marine injectors, now the only problem with them is that the spray pattern is different and will amount to a slight hazing at idle but the power is simply amazing. Or you can send your injectors out to some place and have them modified but that's not cheap so I would stick with just getting something off the shelf like a 370 or there abouts. I did hear a few years back that someone was marketing a 425 injector that had the correct spray pattern and I looked into them for mine but the cost was up there. I don't know what they are running now but I doubt you need that level of injector.
Bump your timing to 16 degrees, fuel plate, boost control (keep the WG from seeing the pressure until 30lbs then pops open) - stock WG trip at around 12-15psi there is still power left to be had so that is why we use a pop off valve - if looking for it on the web it's called a "Boost Control Elbow". Basically it's a 90 degree brass fitting that has been drilled to accept a ball bearing with a spring and set screw to hold it. Once the pressure from the manifold is high enough to shove the ball and spring back that is when the WG "sees" the pressure from the manifold. so it just delays the WG opening.
So Injectors, fuel plate, timing, WG control, Gov Spring Kit and don't forget AFC spring kit, this will allow the fuel to come on a little earlier then you can adjust the star wheel to dial her in and will help control the smoke and low rpm loading. Lugging of engines is not good, with the cummins you don't want to have the power come on until around 1500 RPM anything less by Cummins memo I seen years ago is called ABUSE and they would void warranties if they could prove it was lugged. And really 1500 isn't much so its just a bit off idle and works out well. I had mine dialed in like that.
Oh yer gonna love the P Pump - easy and cheap to turn up the power and tons of it available. I would recommend delivery valves also. get some 191 DV's if she doesn't have them already.
Now for turning up the power a bit that is something i know a little about. If you check out the cummins section I have posted up fuel plate grind pictures so that you can sort of make one yourself on the bench grinder or if you have a mill you can do one much better (looks department).
I would think that your injectors from the VE pump will not work since there is a line pressure difference between the two systems - I can't remember what it is but memory wants to say it's like double or close to it so you need to use injectors from each system respectively. The big hosses are the what's called the 370 marine injectors, now the only problem with them is that the spray pattern is different and will amount to a slight hazing at idle but the power is simply amazing. Or you can send your injectors out to some place and have them modified but that's not cheap so I would stick with just getting something off the shelf like a 370 or there abouts. I did hear a few years back that someone was marketing a 425 injector that had the correct spray pattern and I looked into them for mine but the cost was up there. I don't know what they are running now but I doubt you need that level of injector.
Bump your timing to 16 degrees, fuel plate, boost control (keep the WG from seeing the pressure until 30lbs then pops open) - stock WG trip at around 12-15psi there is still power left to be had so that is why we use a pop off valve - if looking for it on the web it's called a "Boost Control Elbow". Basically it's a 90 degree brass fitting that has been drilled to accept a ball bearing with a spring and set screw to hold it. Once the pressure from the manifold is high enough to shove the ball and spring back that is when the WG "sees" the pressure from the manifold. so it just delays the WG opening.
So Injectors, fuel plate, timing, WG control, Gov Spring Kit and don't forget AFC spring kit, this will allow the fuel to come on a little earlier then you can adjust the star wheel to dial her in and will help control the smoke and low rpm loading. Lugging of engines is not good, with the cummins you don't want to have the power come on until around 1500 RPM anything less by Cummins memo I seen years ago is called ABUSE and they would void warranties if they could prove it was lugged. And really 1500 isn't much so its just a bit off idle and works out well. I had mine dialed in like that.
Oh yer gonna love the P Pump - easy and cheap to turn up the power and tons of it available. I would recommend delivery valves also. get some 191 DV's if she doesn't have them already.
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