Cooling with Propane

[KyleQ]

I want to start off saying if you are going to ***** about safety or explosions, this is not the thread for you, keep the ignorance out of here please...

My 86' has A/C, but it doesn't blow cool air. I've tested the schrader on the A/C rail and I've still got good pressure, so I've got a feeling that my system is still good.

Now my brother is a certified A/C tech and we have access to gauges, I'm just curious on the amount of propane that should be added to the system. I know I'll have to make some fittings to connect to the propane to the gauges, simple stuff.

Has anyone converted over to propane?

 

[88 Ford]

I didn't even know you could use propane in your A/C system. Is the benefit cooler air?

 

[Dave 001]

The boiling point of propane makes it a geat refrigerant (in a system designed for it).

Dave

 

[flareside_thun]

Air temp does get a few degrees cooler. Hopefully someone like itsacrazyasian will run across this thread. That man know his stuff.

 

[rhkcommander]

Propane is a good refridgerant. Dont have much else to say on it other than it does well, havent done a conversion myself and only heard of two done locally.

Before swapping, i would check pressure before starting, while running, and after shutoff. See if the lines to the evap are cold, etc. In dash temps, plus ambient temp will tell you if you reference a chart if your low, norm, or high on refridgerant.

If the FOT is clogged you wont get good temps. Same with low refridgerants, too much oil, etc.

If there is dye in the loop, run a UV light over anything you can reach. The AC caps do help keep some gas in so dont take them off and toss them. If you guys have a leak detector, check the compressor shaft seal, and anywhere lines connect, and condenser as they can be damaged by road debris

Reason being, you may just need to do some simple fix rather than play around, either way you could catch a problem BEFORE the swap.

 

[riotwarrior]

I want to start off saying if you are going to ***** about safety or explosions, this is not the thread for you, keep the ignorance out of here please...

This is ignorance in it's self...to expect people to not comment on safety...WHO ARE YOU KIDDING?

I sure would not want to see you in an accident that causes severe injury to yourself or others due to the impropper use of propane as a refrigerant in an automotive system not designed for it in the first place. The idea is ludicrous...DON"T DO IT....

Now my brother is a certified A/C tech

If this is the case he would know that this is not the application for a propane refrigerant! He would also cite safety concerns and NOT do this for you if he truly cares about you and the general public!

Has anyone converted over to propane?

Don't know and wouldn't do it in an automobile!

FYI this is not being ignorant...this is being TRUE to thyself and to the safety of others when others cannot be safe for themselves!

 

[SparkandFire]

You'll blow your self up...

Just kidding...

In my career I work around all kinds of awesome and toxic gasses, the fact that propane is insanely flammable shouldn't deter you from using it in your A/C system. I watched my dad charge his truck up with propane, it does make a very good refrigerant.

But, just as reference the LEL (lower explosive limit) of propane is 2.1% which means you only need 2.1% of it in a volume of air to have a fire or explosion. But, believe it or not diesel fuel actually has a lower (more dangerous) LEL of 0.6% (it is even more dangerous than 100 octane Gasoline, which is 1.4% LEL) But, the reason we don't worry so much is that diesel is, at normal atmospheric pressure, a liquid. You have to finely atomize diesel, or turn it into a vapor to have to worry about the LEL of it. Whereas propane is a gas at atmospheric pressure, and it is very good at finding tiny holes in your A/C system...

But, like I said, I am not here to tell you not to do it, just give you the knowledge needed to make your own decision on how to approach the issue. Lots of vehicles out here cruise down the road running on CNG, and we are starting to see fuel cell (hydrogen) powered cars as well. Personally I am way more creeped out by the thought of broadsiding a Prius backed with lithium ion batteries that someone with a little propane in their A/C system...

Just as long as they keep the pyrophoric gasses out of cars I'm happy...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germane

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silane

 

[jhnlennon]

Ive done it in 4 different vehicles using Enviro-safe and had less than stellar results. In a system designed for r134 it works ok, but in a r12 system i could never get decent temps with it. The only reason I tried it in a r12 system is its supposed to be compatible with mineral oil(less black death probs). I had better luck evac'ing and charging with r134 in that case. Just my 2 cents worth...

 

[OLDBULL8]

I want to start off saying if you are going to ***** about safety or explosions, this is not the thread for you, keep the ignorance out of here please...

This is where the ignorance started, your first post of this thread.

ig·no·rance/ˈignərəns/Noun: Lack of knowledge or information: "he acted in ignorance of basic procedures

My 86' has A/C, but it doesn't blow cool air. I've tested the schrader on the A/C rail and I've still got good pressure, so I've got a feeling that my system is still good

One or two PSI will blow out like hell, guages are the only way to tell , running you should have, Hi side--230--270 PSI---Lo side---25-35 PSI depending on ambient temperature and a few other things.

Now my brother is a certified A/C tech and we have access to gauges, I'm just curious on the amount of propane that should be added to the system. I know I'll have to make some fittings to connect to the propane to the gauges, simple stuff.

Being certified A/C tech, he should know all the answers.

Ya might check your air blend door, might be stuck open. Check your small vac lines to the temp control.

 

[icanfixall]

What your talking about doing has been done meany times with the over the counter recharge cans but... The biggist issue you will run into is this... No ac shop will ever touch your ac system ever again no matter what you pay.. Say or do. Once you "mix" charges it will never completely come out. You will need to replaceall the condensers, lines, pump and the rest of the system to know its all gone. These new recharge systems the shops are required to have makes them test whats in your system before they suck it out. If they just suck it out it will ruin their evactuation tanks and equiptment. I used to see something they sellers called cow farts being sold at the swap meets all the time but I was not going to contaminate my R12 system. BTW most anyone can go online and get an R12 licence to buy the stuff. Thats how I got 50 lbs of it in the 12 oz cans made by Dupont. Even the 30 lb can are available on Ebay... Know what you about to do and research it completely before you make the jump. I would not be concerned about an explosive mess in front of my rig... Compared to the old pinto fuel tanks of the past that were known to blow up and burn to death the people in the cars. A little gas in front of you that will escape long before it bolws up doesn't concern me at all. Its just the mixing in the differant gas and not ever being able to have a shp touch it again bothers me...

 

[OLDBULL8]

Automobile Propane Refrigerant
The EPA strictly regulates all automobile refrigerants. Propane and hydrocarbon refrigerants are illegal for use in automobiles, as of August 2010, mainly because of concerns about their flammability. Despite this, propane related compounds still exist in some automobiles and recovery and reclamation of propane refrigerant is encouraged. As stated on the EPA's website, auto technicians must use a standard DOT certified tank for recovery. If the tank doesn't have a float valve it can't be filled to over 60 percent of its gross weighted capacity. Certified centers can legally reclaim propane gas mixes from automobiles, though it's difficult for typical auto repair shops to identify specific gas compounds without expensive equipment.



Read more: Regulations for Propane As a Refrigerant | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/list_6824567_regulations-propane-refrigerant.html#ixzz1zmf4Fs9n

 

[firehawk]

Its sad to see stupidly dangerous ideas still being considered.

The simplest and best thing to do is convert to 134 and be done with it. I converted my truck, and it blows cold enough to have to turn it down on a long trip. And that was complaints from the back seat.

 

[flareside_thun]

No, the best thing to do is keep R12. I keep seeing all this hatemail about propane being used in AC systems....not once have I seen anywhere that plenty of other countries allow the use of propane as a refrigerant and have been for years. Propane is dangerous in a vehicle, point taken. But, so is gasoline, axle grease, brake fluid, transmission fluid, an old lady driving, and inexperienced person driving or someone thats had too much to drink.

 

[riotwarrior]

... Propane is dangerous in a vehicle, point taken. But, so is gasoline, axle grease, brake fluid, transmission fluid, an old lady driving, and inexperienced person driving or someone thats had too much to drink.

So let me get this straight..your saying ...DO not let an old lady with little experience driving, drive a vehicle with gasoline trans fluid brake fluid and axle grease in it ....oh ya and propane in it too...????

Propane as a refrigerant is usually in systems designed for that application...

Kinda like propane for motor vehicle fuel is in a tank that is designed for that purpose...try putting it in a tank thats not designed for it...say a rusty old air saddle tank with a hacked together valve and hardware may work...but will it be safe?

 

[RLDSL]

No, the best thing to do is keep R12. I keep seeing all this hatemail about propane being used in AC systems....not once have I seen anywhere that plenty of other countries allow the use of propane as a refrigerant and have been for years. Propane is dangerous in a vehicle, point taken. But, so is gasoline, axle grease, brake fluid, transmission fluid, an old lady driving, and inexperienced person driving or someone thats had too much to drink.

reason folks stuff propane in in a bunch of countries is that the exchange rate of their currency is monkey turds and they cant afford anything else so they make due. doesnt make it a good idea. I know one guy who spent years in one of those central american countries who used to like to stuff propane in his fancy old european cars, but even he would admit that the stuff would leak out like crazy even faster than r134a through the smallest of seepable places, just like many of the *drop in* blends do ( humm, leaking propane under the hood of what he was running, an old spark ignition engine with rotary distributor.... yum sounds like fun, idle me up on a hot day in a traffic jam
Yes, it will blow REAL cold, You would HAVE to replace all of your hoses with NEW barrier hose and ditch the factory accumulator setup and go custom to eliminate another major leak point By the time you have the system sealed up safe enough to handle the refrigerant, you will have spent 2-3 times as much as it would have cost you to to a simple revamp and recharge with r12. or a full out custom upgrade to make r134a blow snotcicles out yer nose. Now where is the logic here