changing IP pump shaft help

[subway]

Can anyone tell me how to change out the injection pump throttle shaft. The u-haul pump I got has a very different throttle shaft. I removed the top of the ip pump but can't see a way I can finagle the darn thing out. Please tell me there is a trick I am missing and I don't have to take the pump all apart and mess up the calibration. This darn pump fought me the whole way getting it in and now I don't have the truck for tomorrow to take the kids biking.

I can post some pics tomorrow when I have access to a computer.

 

[icanfixall]

Wow... Thats a sticky wicked mess right there ya got... I'm thinking Mel is the only person thats had a pump apart that far. Sorry I couldn't be more help...

 

[subway]

thanks Gary, thats what i am afriad off.....

this is a picture of my old pump shaft, i have a spare factory turbo 94 pump and it is the same. there does not seem to be any way to get just the throttle linkage off i have to pull the shaft through the housing and the block that interfaces with the shaft internally will not let this happen.

thinking about this i think oldbull ran into this as well.

 

[OLDBULL8]

Why are you changing shafts? As far as I know they are all the same. If the new pump shaft doesn't have the roll pin for the FIPL, you have to swap it from the old pump.
Gotta go, got a DR. appointment in 15 Minutes, I'll get back with you.

 

[subway]

sorry i should have been more clear, i should have taken a picture of the new pump, i can do that tonight but it is set up very differently. my high idle solenoid will not interface with anything and i can hook my throttle cable to it but would get half throttle at best out of it because of the differant positioning of the stud. internally they are most likely the same its the interface on the outside that is differant, trouble is it looks like i have to pull the whole shaft assembly out to fix this.

i updated the picture, the area circled in red is the interface part that is completely different

 

[OLDBULL8]

Back from the Dr. at 1:15. Neck looking real good. My God, looks like I got my throat slit and a big hole for the drain tube. At leaste no more neck brace.

IP shaft views. Looking at the throttle arm/shaft.

It is a ticklish job changing the shaft. Lots of pics to show how. I'll see if I can mark some.

If you have a manual tranny, there is no need for a FIPL or VSR, no need for the small roll pin. But you do need the cam for the mechanical advance.

You would have to show a pic of the throttle cable side, maybe that will show me why you have to change it.

I'll post again if I can show some more pic's.

 

[subway]

ok i got some pictures of the new injection pump, i tried to get some clear pictures but it is harder with it installed. you can see where the cold advance is not touching the right spot. looking at it i might try grinding the bracket off the old shaft and see if it will fit on the new pump. i have not tried pulling it yet but it looks like the new pump bracket bolts on the shaft.

 

[OLDBULL8]

Never seen a throttle like that. Appears that that IP was on a well pump engine or something like that, where the top speed was set at maybe 2000 RPM. You could back that limiting screw all the way up and see if you can get full throttle.

To change the shaft, you have to remove that Red plastic cap on this pump, and the White cap on the original. Then pull the center pin out, then everything kind of falls apart. You really have to pay attention how everything goes back together. The fuel shutoff slide is touchy to put back, if it's not right, you could have a runaway engine. It's gonna be hell to try and change the shaft with the IP installed bending over the radiator. If your gonna do it, do the old pump 1st and see how it goes. Good Luck.

Edit: pull the solenoid cap off the new pump and take a pic, compare that internals with the old pump.

pic is a different style shaft.

 

[bbjordan]

Proceed with caution...

There is a trick to getting it out. Once you have the easy stuff off,

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Then, see the red cap in the pic in post 3? It has to come off. Loosen the lock nut and remove the pin. You may want to count how many turns in it goes, so you can back it out the same number of turns when you put it back together, or put a spot of paint on it.

Next, take a really good look at the pic in post 3. The little clip on the metering valve sits on top of that pin. Something to note when you're putting it back together.

Now, the spring on the shaft needs to come off. Taking it off is relatively easy. Putting it back on can be a real *****. Now that the pin it out of the way, just slide that piece the pin was in away from the spring.

With the spring now loose, you can crank the throttle shaft open and the part that has the governor spring will be able to move forward (compressing governor spring), up and out. Be careful though, there is a little spring inside that piece. This is the resistance to the pin. The pin is for fine tuning the governor speed. In = lower, out = higher.

The throttle shaft will now be able to be pulled out.

Reverse the procedure to assemble.

Good luck!

 

[subway]

thanks guys, i am going to give it a shot tonight. i will try on my old pump first, i even have an old spare i can play with to. it actually does not sound so bad, a little tricky but doable. i tried putting the throttle cable on, were it is positioned on the arm and how much travel is in the throttle cable i would only have half throttle at best. i suppose i could redrill the stud to get more leverage in a pinch but i would rather it be right.

my other concern is if this IP is for a stationary setup running a constant RPM will it work alright for my truck, i hope so since i am stuck with it now.

 

[OLDBULL8]

[/my other concern is if this IP is for a stationary setup running a constant RPM will it work alright for my truck, i hope so since i am stuck with it nowQUOTE]

Didn't mean to imply that it is for sure. Just that the throttle cable/linkage would be afixed to a throttle control like an old tractor with the hand control, rather than a foot control, ya pull it open til it stops and it runs at that RPM all day. It'll work on your truck.

 

[Black dawg]

things to be careful of:

try really hard to get the guide stud back to the same position.
the piece that has the 2 governor springs sometimes has a spring inside it also. so watch for it and dont loose it.
clean up your old throttle shaft real good and transfer or replace the orings

 

[subway]

Thanks guys I got it, I brought home a etcher to mark everything for realignment and it was actually not bad at all to do. Now my meter does not want to work ggggrrrrrr this pump actually runs worse with higher egt's and no more pep. I have no idea where the timing is at yet though, maybe tomorrow night I will be able to finish it up.

 

[bbjordan]

Jred, glad you got it done!

High EGTs indicate that the timing may be too retarded. Late injection means not enough time for the burn to make peak cylinder pressure at the right time. The energy in the fuel does not get turned into mechanical energy, but exits into the exhaust manifold where it is still burning!
High EGTs! It could be a weak pump too. Lower pressure, later opening the injector, retarded timing...you get the picture. But check the timing, it could be something that simple.

 

[subway]

Jred, glad you got it done!

High EGTs indicate that the timing may be too retarded. Late injection means not enough time for the burn to make peak cylinder pressure at the right time. The energy in the fuel does not get turned into mechanical energy, but exits into the exhaust manifold where it is still burning!
High EGTs! It could be a weak pump too. Lower pressure, later opening the injector, retarded timing...you get the picture. But check the timing, it could be something that simple.

hopefully the pump is fine, it is a fresh rebuild i got from u-haul. like i said though i cant get a steady reading on my timing meter so i brought it in to a few electronics gu-rus here to see if i can straitened it out. the injectors have only a few thousand on them so it should be running much better once i get it set up.