I don't have anything to add to the conversation but I have to say that I will keep that little trick in my back pocket. Never would have thought of that.
Changed IP, now have bad mileage, Please advise.
- Thread starter olddesertrat
- Start date
I don't have anything to add to the conversation but I have to say that I will keep that little trick in my back pocket. Never would have thought of that.
rockbender
Full Access Member
YES - THIS. You ARE timing via a pulse / ferret type method and NOT through a glowplug hole (luminosity method), correct? If this is the case, then you need to rotate to the passenger side to advance the pump. It will go from an ATDC reading to a BTDC reading. Judging by the photo, I'm guessing that you'll be nearly to where the lines meet up to get to 8-ish BTDC. Your earlier readings seemed odd, but it seems you are on the right track now.
nice job on confirming the timing gear marks!
HammerDown
Full Access Member
All I see is a foot in need of a pedicure???
this thread is a nightmare lmao.let's say the timing gears are now (or have been) lined up correctly.
ok a few things need to cleared up here.the first is a question.the rest are facts you need to know.
Q:MacTools ET18DPM Pulse Inducer is a tool used to turn a fuel pulse into a spark pulse like the ferret adapter most of us use correct?
if this is correct,then you time the engine @ 2000 rpm not 1400 rpm ok?
F: 1400 rpm timing would only be done if your using a luminosity probe with an actual timing meter.such as for one example,but not limited to: snapon mt480you would know if your using one of these because you would have had to remove a glow plug and installed another gp looking thing with a window.that would be @ 1400 rpm and timing would be (around 5 degree's ) ATDC.your using the pulse from the #1 fuel line.so you'll be setting timing BTDC ok.this is always done at 2000 rpm.there are no exceptions to this.
all the talk of 2-3 ATDC (if a lumy timing was to be used here) would all be incorrect info posted and based on nothing factual.sorry.there are several charts for this.non of them note 1 or 2 degree's.i always used 6 ATDC when i timed via luminosity in the past.
F:with your pulse to spark adapter hooked up,you need a timing light with built in advance.you set the advance to 8 BTDC (plus or minus 2 degree's.i prefer 7.some 9-10 but whatever) and then you look down at the balancer and your objective is to get the timing mark liked up to 0 degrees ok? you let the light do the work with the advance built in.pulse timing is always,always,always and only done at 2000 rpm.remember don't try and adjust the ip with the engine running! only adjust when off or you'll snap the ip shaft!
if you can't get the balancer to line up to 0 degree's with your timing light set to 8 degree's (plus or minus 2) then i would suspect the timing adapter or the timing light is faulty before condemning the ip.borrow,rent another meter/light & adapter.
ok a few things need to cleared up here.the first is a question.the rest are facts you need to know.
Q:MacTools ET18DPM Pulse Inducer is a tool used to turn a fuel pulse into a spark pulse like the ferret adapter most of us use correct?
if this is correct,then you time the engine @ 2000 rpm not 1400 rpm ok?
F: 1400 rpm timing would only be done if your using a luminosity probe with an actual timing meter.such as for one example,but not limited to: snapon mt480you would know if your using one of these because you would have had to remove a glow plug and installed another gp looking thing with a window.that would be @ 1400 rpm and timing would be (around 5 degree's ) ATDC.your using the pulse from the #1 fuel line.so you'll be setting timing BTDC ok.this is always done at 2000 rpm.there are no exceptions to this.
all the talk of 2-3 ATDC (if a lumy timing was to be used here) would all be incorrect info posted and based on nothing factual.sorry.there are several charts for this.non of them note 1 or 2 degree's.i always used 6 ATDC when i timed via luminosity in the past.
F:with your pulse to spark adapter hooked up,you need a timing light with built in advance.you set the advance to 8 BTDC (plus or minus 2 degree's.i prefer 7.some 9-10 but whatever) and then you look down at the balancer and your objective is to get the timing mark liked up to 0 degrees ok? you let the light do the work with the advance built in.pulse timing is always,always,always and only done at 2000 rpm.remember don't try and adjust the ip with the engine running! only adjust when off or you'll snap the ip shaft!
if you can't get the balancer to line up to 0 degree's with your timing light set to 8 degree's (plus or minus 2) then i would suspect the timing adapter or the timing light is faulty before condemning the ip.borrow,rent another meter/light & adapter.
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olddesertrat
Registered User
Okay, got it now...all post talking about timing for 1400 is for luminosity probes and 2000 rpm is for induced pulse probe...which I am using.
And also sorry about my dyslexic terms for timing. Correct, advancing IP timing MORE causes MORE BTDC degrees read while timing.
Was thinking I was 'retarding' timing by moving ATDC reading towards BTDC readings. As pointed out, that is not correct terms. Am "advancing" IP timing from ATDC to BTDC.
My Bad.
So to be clear, Before any timing adjustment and pulse inducer set up correctly...started at 20 ATDC. Ran rough, lots of smoke.
Then ADVANCED IP timing in steps until bolts are against against sides of slots...ended up with 3 ATDC. So going right direction, just can no go anymore. Truck ran better, no more smoke. That is with pulse inducer, at 1400 rpm.
Will work on truck again tuesday. 1st thing will be to do timing again at 2000 rpm and see if timing changes.
Again, thanks for all the great help
And also sorry about my dyslexic terms for timing. Correct, advancing IP timing MORE causes MORE BTDC degrees read while timing.
Was thinking I was 'retarding' timing by moving ATDC reading towards BTDC readings. As pointed out, that is not correct terms. Am "advancing" IP timing from ATDC to BTDC.
My Bad.
So to be clear, Before any timing adjustment and pulse inducer set up correctly...started at 20 ATDC. Ran rough, lots of smoke.
Then ADVANCED IP timing in steps until bolts are against against sides of slots...ended up with 3 ATDC. So going right direction, just can no go anymore. Truck ran better, no more smoke. That is with pulse inducer, at 1400 rpm.
Will work on truck again tuesday. 1st thing will be to do timing again at 2000 rpm and see if timing changes.
Again, thanks for all the great help
mohavewolfpup
Diesel Wolf Puppy
So what makes you your username?
olddesertrat
Registered User
You must be registered for see images attach
This is old pump put back on truck.
Okay, this thread is almost done. Did what said I would do.
1. Ran timing on new pump at 2000 rpm. Result: Still 3 ATDC...no change from 1,400 rpm.
2. Replaced new pump with original pump. The picture above is old pump. Aligned two factory marks..locked down, checked timing...
And BAM!!!! Timing is at dead "0" TDC.
Good news: This tells me everything else with gears is good.
Bad news: This also tells me this is the 1st original pump...with 189,000 miles on it.... and it started smoking again...which was original reason I replaced it. This also tells me something is wrong with new pump.
Took around another hour to get old pump timed 9 BTDC...but got it there. And now just slightest hint of smoke at idle...so that is better.
Do need a good, new or rebuild injection pump, however the cost of timing equipment has tapped me out of $ for now.
To everyone that had patience and helpful information...Thank You for you help.
Two final questions:
1. Will need a good pump in future. What company do you recommend to buy from?
2. All timing was done with my Banks 1st generation turbo system off. Does having a turbo system change recommended timing?
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rockbender
Full Access Member
So is this where you are sitting with a measured 4 deg ATDC, or did you manage to get the pump moved more?
olddesertrat
Registered User
Rockbender: This final picture is old pump, new pump removed. Could not time new pump better than 3-4 ATDC. Why? Honestly my friend..I know longer care.
If others what to debate what is wrong with pump..fine. It has wasted too much of my time and $ already. It is just a core exchange for my next IP.
Mohavepup: Olddesertrat: I am old, 53 yrs, grew up in Kingman, AZ. Only thing to do in Kingman was to leave Kingman and explore the desert, mountains and old mines. Still love prospecting, hiking, exploring desert, mountains and old mines and caves. Actually prefer sleeping in old mines or caves when out exploring. Very quiet and peacefull. Will go on prospecting trips sometimes for 3-4 days at time. By the time get back to "civilization" truck and me are looking very "ratty".
If others what to debate what is wrong with pump..fine. It has wasted too much of my time and $ already. It is just a core exchange for my next IP.
Mohavepup: Olddesertrat: I am old, 53 yrs, grew up in Kingman, AZ. Only thing to do in Kingman was to leave Kingman and explore the desert, mountains and old mines. Still love prospecting, hiking, exploring desert, mountains and old mines and caves. Actually prefer sleeping in old mines or caves when out exploring. Very quiet and peacefull. Will go on prospecting trips sometimes for 3-4 days at time. By the time get back to "civilization" truck and me are looking very "ratty".
icanfixall
Official GMM hand model
The best bet for a top quality injection pump is Conestoga Diesel in Pa. They have a great web site. Mel who is a member here own this fine shop. He is the person that made the world famous Moose pumps. I don't recall where you got the pump you have now but god things will cost a litle more than the run of the mill ebay ****. Sorry to say it that strong but its tiring when this forum has to post this over and over. Its usually twice as expensive to find this out too seeing you buy crap. then find out thats what you have no matter what the ebay seller tells you. Even the fast over the counter auto parts can't match Mels quality.
kinda.just keep in mind,that running 9 BTDC you'll get more turbo lag than if you if you tried 7 or 8 BTDC.i personally feel the truck handles hauling/towing more effortlessly at 7 BTDC too.that's whats nice about owning a meter.you can experiment with different settings from 6-10 BTDC (8 +/- 2 degree's) and check fuel economy and the way the turbo spools,and works under load (or however you primarily use the truck) to best fit your needs.when i tried higher advance,all i got was a louder engine,fuel economy didn't change,turbo wasn't as snappy,and it wasn't as free feeling while under load.since you own a meter,id try all all 6-10 for a 3-4 tanks each to see what you like best.
olddesertrat
Registered User
Icanfixall: The pump was from Pensacola Diesel few years ago. Was a on-line clearance sale, think $400, and no core required...that is why, thankfully, I still had my old pump. Thanks for recommendation for Conestoga Diesel. Had seen Moose pumps talked about...will look into them more.
Should have joined the forum earlier...would have saved me a whole lot of time and $.
Always tells friends and relatives....used correctly, the internet is the greatest source of information man has yet created.
Should have joined the forum earlier...would have saved me a whole lot of time and $.
Always tells friends and relatives....used correctly, the internet is the greatest source of information man has yet created.
icanfixall
Official GMM hand model
Yes, The internet has helped us stay together helping many owners al over the world. Sadly Pensacola has some "rebuild" issues and they are well known for this. Nobody caused them to be listed in the Hall of Shame forum here. They did that to themselves. I really wish I could tell everyone exactly what they do when they rebuild a DB2 pump but I can't. You can pm Hammerdown and ask him about the 4 pumps they sent him before he felt he had a "useable" pump. Since that episode I have learned more bout pensacola diesel and in good conscious can't recommend them to anyone. I bought one of their $295.00 pumps with no core charge or shipping fees. I will say it did not come with a "painted overhaul" look.
Thanks for the update, you can now send in a precore core 
to Mel and get a good Baby Moose back! Nice~! Don't forget to ask for the 5% discount as an OB member!
Good luck with the truck.
Al
to Mel and get a good Baby Moose back! Nice~! Don't forget to ask for the 5% discount as an OB member!Good luck with the truck.
Al
Michael Fowler
Registered User
This should be the WELCOME line that every new member to this board sees when they first post.
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