Changed IP, now have bad mileage, Please advise.

[NO_SPRK]

Wow you guys are great. Great help. This dude almost screwed himself big time removing the IP with the housing and giving Pensacola diesel your money. I hope your rig gets back together 100%

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[olddesertrat]

Again..Thanks for great info friends. Will use all the information here to take apart and re-assemble all IP parts in the correct order and in correct alignment.

Will update everybody on progress...however may be over a week before doing the work. With all good info will not take only hour or two...just want to have a diesel timing light adapter in hand before starting.

Also truck is in driveway and weather is suppose to windy and raining for next three days.

Later

 

[FarmerFrank]

If somehow properly timing a BAD pump makes it a GOOD one then no not likely...

A bad pumped timed correctly is still a bad pump...

Most likely it could pick up a bit of power/mileage but not 7 mpg (IMHO)

Thanks but bad math struck me again. Drove 140 miles and added 8 gallons. Thought I got less than 10 but really got 17.5.
Oops

 

[olddesertrat]

During rain thought more about mph vs rpm. Realized obvious, mph and rpm are straight mechanics and math based on tire size and gears.

On T18 transmission 4th gear is 1:1. Drive shaft turns same rpm as engine.

Engine rpm = # tire revolutions per minute x diff gear ratio. For my case, engine and drive shaft must turn 4.10 revolutions for every 1 tire revolution.

To keep it simple, figure rpm for 60 mph. 60mph/60mins = 1 mile per minute = 5280 ft per minute.

Rpm at 60mph = rpm at 5280 ft per minute

Distance tire travels in 1 revolution = tire diameter x 3.14(pi)

For my tires, tire diameter = 30 inch. 30 inch x 3.14 = 94.2 inches. Change to ft, 94.2in/12inch = 7.85 ft.

Tire travels 7.85 ft in one revolution. To cover mile, tire travels 5280ft. 5280ft/7.85ft/revolution = 672.6 tire revolutions per minute.

Back to original equation.

Rpm at 60mph = Rpm at 1mile per minute = # tire revolutions per minute x diff gear ratio.

Plug in #s, Rpm at 60mph = 672.6 tire revolutions per minute x 4.10 = 2,757.7....or roughly 2,750 engine rpm at 60mph.

Conclusion: My memory was wrong. Running at 65mph would be very close to 3,000 rpm.

If can get 22% overdrive, the rpm would be 672.2 x 4.10 x 0.78 = 2151 rpm.....That would make a huge difference.

2nd conclusion: Driving few hundred miles per week, installing overdrive or another transmission with overdrive will pay for itself quickly.

Am sure this topic has been done 100s of times else where. Please feel free to check my math and point out any errors.

Later

 

[riotwarrior]

Distance tire travels in 1 revolution = tire diameter x 3.14(pi)

.... Please feel free to check my math and point out any errors.

Actually it's not the diameter of the tyre you measure...it is the static loaded radius, if you measure from axle centerline to the ground, x that by 2 then x 3.1415 you get the correct measurement.

The static loaded radius is what the truck sees as tyre size, we...see the overall diameter which is incorrect.


JM2CW

Al

 

[icanfixall]

Good point Al. The tires sit flat on the road so that distance is less from the axle center to the road then it is from front to back or axle center to top of tire... God point really.

 

[FarmerFrank]

Another thing to keep in mind, that is an undersize tire. Factory is 235/85/16 which is taller. I ran a set of 245/75/16's for a little while because they were free and my speedo was 5mph fast. So that also throws off your odometer which in turn would throw off your mileage calculations.

 

[olddesertrat]

Getting ready to do timing. The "0" timing mark is on metal plate..no other marks. Have read timing should be set at 8-9.5 BTDC using pulse adapter. Need to mark that timing on plate. For BTDC believe damper mark should be above "0". In inches, how far above "0" should I put a 10 degree mark?

Thanks

 

[icanfixall]

Thats an interesting question asked. Al aka riotwarrior posted an article he made showing timing tape on the dampner and it showed very clearly the 10 degrees or really any advance you wanted on the wheel. Do a search to find it. Very good posting too from Al..



To make it really simple I guess a person could divide the dampner wheel into 36 equal pieces and that would mearsure the 10 degrees you want. Ot simply measure the circumference of the wheel and divide by 36 to find the dimension. I think the diameter of the wheel was something like 7 1/4 inches but do not really recall. 360 degree and 10 degrees is part of the formula but I don't know the rest.

 

[olddesertrat]

Did see the thread with the tape, and liked it. However do not have the tape and want to do timing now. Guess will do the math and figure out myself where 10 degrees is located.

Later

 

[riotwarrior]

Did see the thread with the tape, and liked it. However do not have the tape and want to do timing now. Guess will do the math and figure out myself where 10 degrees is located.

Later

First what all do you have to do the timing with? If you have a ferrert or other PULSE adapter and an adjustable timing light there is NO need for tape. The tape mearly makes it so anyone with a plain old inductive pickup timing light and a pulse or lumi probe that will trigger a timing light can use a regular timing light.

We appreciate and understand what you want to do, please, explain what you have and we can offer the best support geared to that situation.

PM me or not for more direct contact, I've been known to talk a few people through things from time to time over phone!

Your success is our success...so lets get ya going asap and as good as possible!

Al

 

[icanfixall]

The measurement you want is .610 inches for a 10 degree advance mark. Thats using the dampner diameter of 7 inches. times 3.14 gets you 21.98 inches. divided by 36 returns a measurement of .610 for 10 degrees advance.

 

[riotwarrior]

The measurement you want is .610 inches for a 10 degree advance mark. Thats using the dampner diameter of 7 inches. times 3.14 gets you 21.98 inches. divided by 36 returns a measurement of .610 for 10 degrees advance.

Our damper is NOT 7" it's actually larger! FYI

The math is there in one of my timing tape threads, and anyone can do it and figure out where to mark a mark. I won't tell them they have to do that for themselves!

 

[olddesertrat]

Okay, Got everything back together and did the timing. Would really like to upload pictures, but after do browse and select picture, website does not give me option to load. they are .jpg images and should work. So will have to explain with words until can figure out pictures. Done so far.

1. Took IP and drive gear completely off.
2. Install new Delphi injectors.
3. Installed drive gear, double and triple checked two "Y" aligned.
4. Installed everything else.
5. IP factory timing mark and gear housing timing mark aligned exactly as they had before.
6. Started and warmed up engine. Stopped engine.
7. Hooked up MacTools ET18DPM Pulse Inducer to #1 cylinder fuel line. 1st cylinder on passenger side, nearest radiator.
8. Hooked up new Innova 3568 to battery and ET18DPM.
9. Started engine, used turnbuckle to set RPM to 1400.
10. Turned on timing light, adjusted 3568 negative till damper mark aligned to "0" timing mark.
11. Timing, according to 3568, is 43 degrees BTDC.

Know readers 1st reaction is that IP drive gear must be off a tooth or two. Or maybe wrong Cylinder fuel line.
No, am 100% sure IP gear and Cam gear are aligned correctly. And this is why really want to add pictures.
Made two tools for aligning gears.
1. A probe like a dentist tool, with tiny pointed 90 degree end.
With Damper at "0" DTC. used tool to feel location of "Y" groove on cam gear. Then marked groove with paint. Mark "Y" tooth on IP gear. Lowered gears into place.
2. With gears in place, made another tool. Start with thin, flexible metal yard stick. On one end pressed thin layer of plumbers putty. Thin enough that yard stick with putty clears the 1/8 gap between front housing plate and gears. Pressed putty onto gears and removed. Very clear impression of gears and "Y" marks and gears. Removed gear, intentionally off-set gears by one tooth in both directions and made putty imprints to see what bad alignment looked like. Then did correct alignment and putty imprints twice.
With this method, had direct visual verification that "Y" marks were aligned correctly.

The factory IP timing mark is about 3/16th below the factory timing mark on gear housing.
If I understand correctly...Rotating IP upwards, or towards passenger side, also towards factory gear housing timing mark, will advance timing. Because this gap is around three dime thicknesses, maybe getting the two factory timing marks close to aligned will get my timing close to 10 BTC.

Will do that after taking a break. Tried it and pump refuses to move. Going to have to start loosing up fuel lines until can get pump to turn.

Later

 

[riotwarrior]

.......
7. Hooked up MacTools ET18DPM Pulse Inducer to #1 cylinder fuel line. 1st cylinder on passenger side, nearest radiator.
8. Hooked up new Innova 3568 to battery and ET18DPM.
9. Started engine, used turnbuckle to set RPM to 1400.
10. Turned on timing light, adjusted 3568 negative till damper mark aligned to "0" timing mark.
11. Timing, according to 3568, is 43 degrees BTDC.....

I am not sure where you thought that was the correct timing or not however the equipment should work well for you.


Here is what I know for timing..

If pulse indicator is used, correctly and on #1 cyl, forward most cylinder on passengers side then

- warm engine, then set RPM to 2000

- if timing light is adjustable set light to 9.5 BTDC offset or to what you choose, 8 deg 10.5 deg but 9.5 is usual recommendation for current fuel

- look at timing marks 0 timing tab, this is the shallow hole...and it should line up with slash on the harmonic if timed perfectly...
- It should look just like this 0-- while the engine is running at 2000 ROM
In this thread are the timing marks are shown clearly
http://www.oilburners.net/forums/sh...TIMING-LIGHTS-Tech-101&highlight=timing+marks

hope that helps