911 - What am I overlooking???
- Thread starter janos1
- Start date
hesutton
The Anti-Anderson
Well, there's your answer. You have the gear 180 degrees off. You line up the "Y" on the cam with the "Y" on the IP gear. The "O" is for the cam to crank gear timing. It will never run with the timing that far off.
You need to get the "Y" marks lined up on the cam and IP gears. After that, you should be good to go.
Heath
Last edited:
david85
Full Access Member
Well, at least you know what the problem is now. Its not the end of the world to fix, but it will be a pain. The injector pump can only be bolted to the drive gear one way, so thats not something that can ever get out of time. However, the gear can get out of time with the camshaft gear if its removed. Practically guaranteed actually even if you brought it to TDC.
Worst case senario, you will have to remove the water pump and then remove the front engine cover to expose the timing marks of the gears.
Best case senario, you will have to get a really small, flat piece of polished metal like a really good butter knife or perhaps a thin piece of mirror to peer down into the front of the engine so you will be able to find the timing mark. The timing mark is on the front face of the gear, and there is no mark on the outer circumference. Good lighting is requred for this
Start by bringing the engine to TDC like you did before and start looking for that mark as described (shaped like a small "Y"). If you can't find it, roll the engine over one full turn and look again. Once you find it place the gear in position, then install the gear cover. Do not attempt to install the gear, cover and injector pump as one assembly.
The injector pump is intended to be removed and installed injector lines and all without disturbing the gear cover. It is a little tricky, but there is enough room (the designed it with this problem in mind).
Good luck.
Worst case senario, you will have to remove the water pump and then remove the front engine cover to expose the timing marks of the gears.
Best case senario, you will have to get a really small, flat piece of polished metal like a really good butter knife or perhaps a thin piece of mirror to peer down into the front of the engine so you will be able to find the timing mark. The timing mark is on the front face of the gear, and there is no mark on the outer circumference. Good lighting is requred for this
Start by bringing the engine to TDC like you did before and start looking for that mark as described (shaped like a small "Y"). If you can't find it, roll the engine over one full turn and look again. Once you find it place the gear in position, then install the gear cover. Do not attempt to install the gear, cover and injector pump as one assembly.
The injector pump is intended to be removed and installed injector lines and all without disturbing the gear cover. It is a little tricky, but there is enough room (the designed it with this problem in mind).
Good luck.
david85
Full Access Member
OH THE PAIN!!!
*Grabs head in both hands and cringes
And we go to SO MUCH effort to make sure people DON'T do this kind of stuff!
DID YOU NOT READ THE ARTICLE ON HOW TO DO THIS BEFORE YOU DID IT???
Don't be too ******* him. At least he came here for help instead of shooting/flogging the truck. Come to think of it, I made some pretty dumb mistakes when I first got into these trucks. Its a wonder I never did this myself
janos1
That's gonna hurt
Don't be too ******* him. At least he came here for help instead of shooting/flogging the truck. Come to think of it, I made some pretty dumb mistakes when I first got into these trucks. Its a wonder I never did this myself
OH THE PAIN!!!
*Grabs head in both hands and cringes
And we go to SO MUCH effort to make sure people DON'T do this kind of stuff!
DID YOU NOT READ THE ARTICLE ON HOW TO DO THIS BEFORE YOU DID IT???
I did look for the article, I just didn't find it. In hind sight I can see where I was doing things wrong. The motor isn't 180 out because the dowel pin on the IP gear was clocked in the same location on both motors. First I brought it to zero and checked it. It was 180 out, so I barred it over one rotation and made sure it was correct. Worst case it could only be one tooth off and that I am certain. How much does it have to be off not to run?
david85
Full Access Member
One tooth might (MIGHT!!!!) try and fire. 2 teath and it might as well be 180 out.
If the engine is hot and has enough compression, it will fire even at 180 but will run like crap with smoke and no power/stalling.
With timing out that far, the burns simply because there is some left in the cylinder and pops off slightly, Timing doesn't matter anymore after there is enough fuel oil left inside. If it reaches the tailpipe, you can imagine how much gets in the cylinder. I don't think its possible to hydrolock unless there is a really bad injector, but it is soaked in there.
If the engine is hot and has enough compression, it will fire even at 180 but will run like crap with smoke and no power/stalling.
With timing out that far, the burns simply because there is some left in the cylinder and pops off slightly, Timing doesn't matter anymore after there is enough fuel oil left inside. If it reaches the tailpipe, you can imagine how much gets in the cylinder. I don't think its possible to hydrolock unless there is a really bad injector, but it is soaked in there.
hesutton
The Anti-Anderson
If you lined up the "o" on the cam gear with the "y" on the Ip gear, trust me, it is way out of time.
Please have a look at this:
CLICK HERE
And, this:
CLICK HERE TOO.
Heath
janos1
That's gonna hurt
Well, I am goin into it tomorrow for a look around. To double check what I did. The Y was on the bottom of the gear on both pumps when I pulled them. I really appreciate all the input, even the stern *** were you thinkin'
?? I will let you know what the status is.Michael Fowler
Registered User
We need an update. What happened? What did you find out?
Did you get it running, yet?
Did you get it running, yet?
janos1
That's gonna hurt
I have been getting home from work late, so I haven't gotten the chance to give it my full attention. The weather and the time change has been a pain in the ****. The weekend will tell.
icanfixall
Official GMM hand model
Janos.. You posted that you felt the motor was 180 degrees out of time so you barred the motor over. How did you determine the 180 degrees out method. Its just as posted above by Heath. Both the cam gear "Y" and the injection pump gear"Y" must be aligned for the motor to be timed gear wise properly. Then its just getting the pump close by turning it towards the right or left fender but... Don't turn this with the motor running. There will be too much torque from the pump trying to turn and pump fuel to the injectors. The motor must be shut off and then you can move the injection pump. Hopefully this helps you understand things a little easier. We all want to help you get this problem fixed and running. There is so much help just waiting for you to ask for it. We want you to end upwith a running truck.
janos1
That's gonna hurt
First I pulled the inspection cover off the parts truck to see what orientation the dowel pin was in with the motor at TDC. I then pulled the cover off the other motor to compare the two. The dually motor had to be barred 180* to get the pin to the same location, (approx. 4 o'clock) and the top two IP gear bolts were level to each other. So with that as my reference I pulled the IP cover with the pump intact. After priming and trying till I was sick of looking at it. I am now tearing the front off to insure that it was timed correctly.
Now that I got it tore down and the timing was correct, What now?!?
My next step is swapping the motors out and putting the IP's back in their respective place. I ran a jumper wire to the FSS just to check to see if that could have been a problem. But to no avail. I have played all the cards in my hand right now. Any suggestions from here would be nice.
icanfixall
Official GMM hand model
When you say you tore off the front of the engine... What does this mean. Did you remove the water pump and the plate behind it? Then if thats what you did what was the timing marks. The "Y" on both the cam gear and the injection pump gear must be lined up. Also the small zero on the bottom of the cam gear must be lined up with the zero on the crank gear. Nothing needs to be lined up with the oil pump gear on the crank gear. There is no timing needed there.
janos1
That's gonna hurt
I fear that the rings in the truck I just got are wiped. And I will have to swap out the motors this evening. With the timing cover off and all the dangly things out of the way. I jumped the FSS to the batt. (+) and gave it a spin to listen to what is going on in the crankcase. There was a lot of hissing and fuel vapor coming out of it. Making me believe this motor is ready for a rebuild. I'm just going to bite the bullet and get to work
Michael Fowler
Registered User
If rebuilding is what you want to do, then go for it. But, in my experience many engine are rebuilt that really do not need it. When I did mine, the original factory hone marks were visible at the bottom of the cylinders, and there was no ridge at the top of the cylinder. My previous experience was all gas motors, and i thought it could use a freshening up.
You really should run a dry and then wet compression test to see what the numbers are, before committing the $$$$ for a rebuild.. If you do the rebuild expect to spend well over $1000.
You really should run a dry and then wet compression test to see what the numbers are, before committing the $$$$ for a rebuild.. If you do the rebuild expect to spend well over $1000.
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