89 f250 ac question

[Nero]

Reference the photo earlier. Low side port will be the blue cap on the right.
If the quick disconnect adapter isn't there, it'll be just a standard threaded fitting.

 

[DrCharles]

Sounds like a nightmare, but it works. Old hoses, old o-rings, ester oil. I have heard of people not even evacuating, just adding the 134a on what little r12 was left. I would not recommend doing that, but apparently people have tried it and it works.

I have done several by installing conversion fittings, evacuating, checking for leaks, and then adding the r134a/ester oil combo cans and had them work well.

Sure, it'll usually work - but for how long? When I do a conversion I only want to do it once, not to mention spending the money!

The old hoses (assuming no leaks) are fine in my experience. Old black O-rings are commonly said to be incompatible with 134, but the refrigerant oil does coat them so I don't really know. Since I change them for new, anyway I use the "correct' green ones...

 

[Booyah45828]

IDK. The kits we bought included o-rings. And when flushing, I took apart and flushed everything individually anyways, so o-rings were always replaced. I heard the same thing though, that any residual mineral oil will stick to the old nitrile o-rings and "seal" them to r134a so to speak.

And that kind of makes sense, as I never replaced shaft seals on any of the compressors we reused, and don't remember any of those leaking either. All of the retrofits I performed were because the r12 leaked out, and 9 out of 10 times it was compressors leaking, so those units were replaced and then the retrofit performed. So it's not a huge number of reused compressors.

And that leads to my next suggestion of finding the leak before doing anything. Because if the r12 is gone, it went somewhere, and gassing up a leaking system isn't right and is a recipe for a comeback IMO.

 

[DrCharles]

And that leads to my next suggestion of finding the leak before doing anything. Because if the r12 is gone, it went somewhere, and gassing up a leaking system isn't right and is a recipe for a comeback IMO.

Also expensive, not to mention illegal

There have been cases where a system would hold vacuum just fine, but the defective o-ring would leak with the ~90 psi static (system off) pressure on a good warm day. Large leaks can be found with soapy water. Small leaks are best located with a refrigerant detector. Add just a little refrigerant and pressurize to 100 psi with dry nitrogen or other inert gas.

 

[Booyah45828]

Expensive? Depends. A new $100k truck is expensive, a $7 can of r134a every year, not so much. You'd be hard pressed to find a member here that will pay a few hundred to fix the leak, over 10 bucks a year to get by with it.

I'd like to see where it's illegal at as well, because I can guarantee you that 90+% of the hand grenades sold at every walmart and auto parts store are being bought by the general public and going into leakers that won't be fixed. There's an entire industry based solely off of that(hello a/c pro, etc.)

Is it right? No. Should the leak be found? Sure. Will it be found? Not until they quit selling it to the general public.

Now if you're talking about 609 certs and techs that are, that's altogether different. But again, being certified isn't a requirement to purchase r134a in the cans at any quantity, and until that changes, there will be leaks that aren't fixed.

 

[Nero]

You used to be able to purchase the 30lb cans off Amazon, but they've tightened that loophole. I hear through the grapevine that you soon won't be able to get the small cans. I vote fix it right. A good system works way better than a patched system.

 

[franklin2]

Sure, it'll usually work - but for how long? When I do a conversion I only want to do it once, not to mention spending the money!

I have had them work for years and years. But after awhile the system will usually develop a leak somewhere. Fix it and then keep going with the old conversion. Only thing is if you get a new compressor, and they have PAG oil in it, then you have to flush the system and convert it over to PAG.


I do not like the "closed" community theory with the HVAC industry. I do not like it with any industry. That is why I will not buy a newer car or truck. They purposely make it complicated enough to where you can't work on it without expensive special tools. Those big touch screens they put in vehicles now have enough capability that it would cost them pennies per vehicle to put a scanner system in one of those so you could troubleshoot problems. They will never do it.

 

[Old Goat]

Old is beautiful.


Goat

 

[DrCharles]

I'd like to see where it's illegal at as well, because I can guarantee you that 90+% of the hand grenades sold at every walmart and auto parts store are being bought by the general public and going into leakers that won't be fixed. There's an entire industry based solely off of that(hello a/c pro, etc.)

Is it right? No. Should the leak be found? Sure. Will it be found? Not until they quit selling it to the general public.

Now if you're talking about 609 certs and techs that are, that's altogether different. But again, being certified isn't a requirement to purchase r134a in the cans at any quantity, and until that changes, there will be leaks that aren't fixed.

All true, except that I was referring to a complete system rebuild if a compressor "grenades" and fills the system with shrapnel. Good luck getting it out of a parallel-flow condenser; also replace the receiver-dryer, expansion valve, and compressor of course (and you might be able to flush the evaporator if you're lucky). Let's see you do that for $7 You pays your money and you takes your chances.

For some thoughts about laws, see this article from the turf-protecting MACS: https://macsmobileairclimate.org/2016/06/23/regulating-recharge/
I despise them because everything they do is to prevent anyone but "certified" techs from working on a/c. They also successfully scare-mongered 17 states (last time I looked) into outlawing hydrocarbon refrigerants, even though they are extensively used in South America, Australia, and other countries without Cheech & Chong-style flames and smoke coming out the windows... Let's just say in my experience propane/butane works very well.

Meanwhile, it's easy to get an EPA Part 609 certification and then you can buy the non-penguin-friendly R12. I got mine 27 years ago

 

[Old Goat]

Couple years back, at least under Trump, the small cans of R-134 were around $4.
Now I see they are close to $10 at Wally World.


Goat

 

[Rdnck84_03]

Couple years back, at least under Trump, the small cans of R-134 were around $4

About that same time frame I would buy mine on clearance at our local farm and home store at the beginning of winter for $1.99 a can. I would buy 2 cases of 12 every year.

My stock pile is about to run out and I'm really not liking the current prices.

James

 

[DrCharles]

I bought a 25-lb jug of R-134a from Sam's Club some years ago for $79 plus tax... as the price of small or large containers keeps rising, I use it very carefully (which includes fixing leaks)

 

[franklin2]

. Let's just say in my experience propane/butane works very well.

I was going to bring that up to stir things up a little bit, but you did it for me . I have never used propane on a old r12 system, but I have heard it works great as far as cooling. I have heard they do use it overseas with little to no problems. I was still a little iffy about it, till they came out with the new R1234YF. It's supposedly flammable also and no one seems to worried about it. So I might get brave one day and try propane which is R-290. In Canada they call it "REDTEK". Looks like it's compatible with most any type of oil.

 

[DrCharles]

Pressure's a little high with pure propane. That's why they add some butane to the mix (think it's 70/30 but not sure). "Duracool" is the brand in the US.
Yes, HC refrigerants work with any oil. Somewhere I have a jug of AB (alkylbenzene) oil that works with any automotive refrigerant, too (CFC, HCFC, HC) and is also miscible with mineral oil
Note that blended refrigerants should not be charged into a leaky system because the different components leak at different rates...

 

[franklin2]

If it's a mix, must be why they tell you to fill it with the can upside down. Like you have to with the 410a.