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05 king ranch dies while driving, difficulty restarting

Discussion in '6.0L Powerstroke Diesels' started by Exhumis, Nov 22, 2019.

  1. Exhumis

    Exhumis Full Access Member

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    Hi folks,
    Posting this for my dad, he doesn't internet. He has an 05 king ranch he uses for towing hay and equipment. It's been studded and chipped, not sure what else. He uses a tow tune when towing. He said today it just died on him while he was driving. He said he could barely get it started on ether. Ran it down the road a few miles, died again. Got it started again on ether and to a local shop he takes his truck to. They scanned it for codes, no codes. He said they changed the fuel filters and drained the tank completely. Fresh fuel, still doing it. Will run a few miles and die. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks for the help. My dad's a pretty competent mechanic so if I can point him in the riggr direction he'll suss it out.
     
  2. Oledirtypearl86

    Oledirtypearl86 Full Access Member

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    It's hard to say but both a ficm and hpop will do this also a failing lift pump I'd say hpop where he uses ether to get it started because the extra rpm could bring up the pressure enough to start and it probibly cooled a little in-between starts keep us posted
     
  3. bismic1

    bismic1 Full Access Member

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    You can get into trouble using ether. I know it can be a good troubleshooting tool, but it can cause issues in the 6.0L. Adding to what was posted above, let it sit overnight (get the engine cool) and see if it starts. A starting engine that doesn't start when hot will point to the high pressure oil system (again as posted above). Random dying when driving can be the FICM, or IPR valve, or EBP sensor (or one of several other things).

    Regarding a "lift pump", the 6.0L really doesn't have one. A lift pump is usually used to describe a pump that feeds a high pressure fuel pump. The 6.0L uses high pressure oil to actuate the injectors (like the 7.3L does). The one and only fuel pump is in the unit called the HFCM. It is the combined pump, water separator, and primary fuel filter located on the drivers side frame rail.

    To accurately troubleshoot a 6.0L without guessing, you are going to need a scan tool. IMO the best tool for the money is to download the ForScan app to a smartphone and then buy an ELM327 OBDII adapter (WiFi for iOS and Bluetooth for Android). The BAFX brand works well. Some Amazon brands don't work well.

    You can use that device and app to watch the high pressure oil system, the FICM voltages, and the sync (cam/crank sync and FICM sync).

    Several things you can start with are make sure the oil level is full but not overfull, and make sure that the batteries are fully charged and load tested. You can also try running with a couple of sensors disconnected (the ICP and the IPR). Sometimes when they have electrical issues, they can cause intermittent shutdowns. You can run fine without them plugged in for short runs - say 10-30 miles.

    Then you can verify that the secondary fuel filter housing fills quickly w/ the ignition key on ..... and that the oil filter housing (filter removed) will fill in around 10 seconds of cranking. When cranking to watch the oil filter housing, you need to crank w/ the starter solenoid wire (passenger side) jumped to the passenger battery terminal, or crank w/ the FICM relay pulled. You don't want the engine to try to start or for the injectors to actuate during the testing.

    Full version of no-start troubleshooting (w/ links to videos) posted here:

    https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/874550-troubleshooting-a-no-start-condition.html
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
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  4. Exhumis

    Exhumis Full Access Member

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    That sounds like all good info. I'll pass it on and see what happens. Thanks for the help.
     
  5. 79jasper

    79jasper Chickenhawk

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    I would also doubt it being the hpop itself. They rarely fail. I would lean towards a high pressure oil leak.
    But you need the data to verify, then a air test.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
     
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  6. Exhumis

    Exhumis Full Access Member

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    So my dad tried everything in Bismics post but so far no dice. His tuner does have the capability of monitoring ficm voltages and using the link you sent he's got it set to alarm if it drops below a certain voltage. He and his mechanic are leaning towards either a short or bad ground at this point as he can drive it for hours with no issues, then have tons of issues. I'll report back if he ever figures it out. Attached is a pic of the truck we're helping to troubleshoot. My dad appreciates the help, especially since he's in Alaska where there are a few diesel shops.

    123_1_04.jpeg
     
  7. bismic1

    bismic1 Full Access Member

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    Just be aware that a FICM is complicated. It has a logic board and a power board. The voltage on either can fail (MPower or LPower), but it can also quit processing data - just like any computer can. What I am saying is that it can have electrical issues that cause problems without the voltages EVER being bad.

    I have a spare FICM (proven to be good), so I can pop it in for testing when I have a random engine shutdown.

    A short in the IPR, or in the IPR connector/wiring, can cause random engine shutdowns also.
     
  8. Exhumis

    Exhumis Full Access Member

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    Ah I see. That makes sense. Is there a way to diagnose a failing ficm?
     
  9. bismic1

    bismic1 Full Access Member

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    I don't know of any - except to send it to a company like FICMrepair.com
     
  10. Exhumis

    Exhumis Full Access Member

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    That's kinda a bummer. His issues make me appreciate the simplicity of my idi more and more. . Once he gets it figured out I'll report back. Be nice if someone else runs into the same issue
     
  11. DaveBen

    DaveBen Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    We have run into that situation here. Many years ago I had that problem. I did NOT screw around with it. I replaced the FICM and cured that headache. These newer trucks do require more money than the IDI's.
     
  12. Exhumis

    Exhumis Full Access Member

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    Well a bit more info. My pop says the voltage on the ficm hasn't dropped below 47 volts once. He says the only time the truck dies is when he's towing and the voltage hasn't dropped. Driving unladen the truck is fine. More info to come.
     
  13. bismic1

    bismic1 Full Access Member

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    Again - the FICM voltage is only one aspect of the computer called the FICM. When "Windows" on your home computer locks up, it is rarely the power supply. I am not saying that it is your FICM, just making the point that voltage isn't the "tell-all" parameter.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019 at 9:21 AM
  14. bismic1

    bismic1 Full Access Member

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    What tool was used to scan for codes? Some are good and some are only so-so.

    According to your first post, it dies and then doesn't start (I know, it started with ether, but I wouldn't keep doing that).

    More than likely it is a "no-start when hot" condition.

    You need a scan tool. ForScan Lite downloaded to a smartphone is the way to go. You will also need an ELM327 OBDII adapter (WiFi for iOS and BlueTooth for Android). The BAFX brand works well. Other brands on Amazon do not work so well (Chinese clones).

    Need to note the engine parameters when it dies (oil and coolant temperature, IPR% duty cycle, ICP pressure to start with).

    Then you need to collect the cranking data when it won't start.

    At this point, we can only guess without data.

    Cranking data needed:
    rpms
    voltages (FICM MPower, LPower, and VPower)
    FICM sync (y or n)
    ICP volts
    ICP pressure, psig
    IPR % duty cycle

    In addition to the above, he could do the bubble test after it dies. Basically you fill the secondary fuel filter bowl (filter out) with fuel, and then crank w/ the starter solenoid wire jumpered to the passenger side batter (+ terminal). You can also have someone crank w/ the FICM relay and fuel pump fuse removed, but using the starter solenoid wire is MUCH easier. Look for bubbles in the fuel. Sometimes a bad injector will allow compression gas to leak backwards and starve the engine for fuel due to the "back Pressure".
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019 at 9:38 AM
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  15. Exhumis

    Exhumis Full Access Member

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    I'm not sure which scan tool was originally used. I do know the shop he takes it to uses whatever scanner Ford uses as the mechanic that owns the shop used to work for Ford. The tuner my dad is running in his truck is the sctflash sctx4 which apparently can capture real time some of the data you've asked for. I've forwarded this on to my dad we'll see what we get back. I recommended the app and Bluetooth adapter you said, don't know if he got it or not.
     

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