Fuel delivery issue

[chillman88]

Ok so no I haven't dug too deep but it's frustrating enough that I need to vent even if it ends up being something stupid simple.

Driving home today the "Fuel Filter" light came on... Then the truck shut off.

I have an electric pump inline with the mechanical. I know, I've been warned not to but I haven't had a chance to fix it yet and it came like that.

I checked the schrader valve and no fuel came out. I primed it with the electric pump and then after several cranks finally got it to fire. Revved her up a bit to clear out the lines and drove the last few miles home.

It acted like it was running out of fuel so for giggles I put the 4ish gallons in that I had in a can in the bed. I'll check in a little while to see if that helped at all. Fuel gauge was reading a little over half, now it reads about 3/4. There was air in the filter again, primed as before and ran it a minute.

Last Saturday I dropped the tank and put a hose on the end of the sending unit because the showerhead was gone. I put a brass union on the end so it wouldn't suck closed on the tank and to weigh it down.

I drove it to town Monday, work yesterday, and work today, so it couldn't be an IMMEDIATE result of dropping the tank.

I wasn't even going to post this but the fuel filter light coming on was odd. If my gauge is reading wrong and i'm just low on fuel the filter light wouldn't have lit?

 

[79jasper]

Can't pressurize air with a liquid. So yes, the filter light would come on with air.
I would bet one of the quick disconnects is being pissy. They have orings inside. But it's way way way easier to just replace the fitting.

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[Jason1377]

Having same issue I'll make a thread of mine could ur lines or a line be clogged it have to much water

 

[chillman88]

Can't pressurize air with a liquid. So yes, the filter light would come on with air.
I would bet one of the quick disconnects is being pissy. They have orings inside. But it's way way way easier to just replace the fitting.

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I thought the filter light only acted on vacuum, not low pressure. I would have thought one of the disconnects would have been identified as a problem in the last 70+ miles but I suppose you're right as a possibility. I'm still not certain it's not the gauge however. I'm going out to check on it now actually.

Having same issue I'll make a thread of mine could ur lines or a line be clogged it have to much water[/QUOTE

My first thought was that the pickup sucked up a piece of the old showerhead. That however wouldn't cause air intrusion unless.....

That wouldn't cause air intrusion unless the blockage caused air to be sucked into the system by a bad quick disconnect! That would make sense actually.

I will go see what she does now. I'll report back with what I find. I won't be dropping the tank or anything tonight but we'll see if she's got air or fuel where it doesn't belong now.

 

[genscripter]

I have an electric pump inline with the mechanical. I know, I've been warned not to but I haven't had a chance to fix it yet and it came like that.

I never understand how people can drive IDI's with an epump and liftpump in series. It's a 2 minute job. Just put a small section of rubber fuel hose to bypass the lift pump. Pipe cutter (if necessary), 2 hose clamps and 12 inches of rubber hose (to prevent kinking)... done.

I'd do that immediately. It'll help eliminate future variables to that fuel system.

 

[chillman88]

I never understand how people can drive IDI's with an epump and liftpump in series. It's a 2 minute job. Just put a small section of rubber fuel hose to bypass the lift pump. Pipe cutter (if necessary), 2 hose clamps and 12 inches of rubber hose (to prevent kinking)... done.

I'd do that immediately. It'll help eliminate future variables to that fuel system.

Because the e-pump is an unknown in both age and make, but has been EXTREMELY helpful in priming the system many times.

However... I'm at an impass here. Good news is I have tracked down my fuel leak/oil leak and most likely my entire problem from today.

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The fuel line is NOT supposed to be shaking around like a leaf in a windstorm.... Somehow my mechanical pump decided to "discard" one of it's mounting bolts. I would assume it simply vibrated out and is not broken off in the hole. I now have a few problems to deal with.

1. I need to figure out what size bolt is supposed to go in there. I would assume they are both the same thread, but the one that's AWOL is the one towards the radiator.

2. I need to figure out my pump situation. I have a second vehicle, but it's not without it's own set of issues. I can certainly replace my mechanical pump, but truthfully I've always been leery of not having a backup plan. Ideally I'd separate the e-pump with a valve and rely on the mechanical but have the e-pump as a secondary.

I'm the one everyone else depends on without really having anyone who can come save my bacon. Redundancy has become necessary for me....

 

[genscripter]

I'm the one everyone else depends on without really having anyone who can come save my bacon. Redundancy has become necessary for me....

If you want redundancy, just install a new e-pump and make sure your fuel system doesn't have any air intrusion or bubbles. The IP will suck fuel through the pump just as long as there is no air in the fuel system. That's your redundancy: IP and e-pump.

If your epump fails, you can still drive the vehicle because the IP will get you started and running, even with zero fuel pressure. But the problem is, if you rely on the stock ford fuel system, you will inevitably get air intrusion. I always hated the design of the ford system, and I'm glad I tossed that ford fuel supply system years ago. Now I run my filters and epump on the rails (much easier to access and less messy to maintain), and a simple rubber diesel-rated fuel hose up to the IP inlet. No more metal lines, olives, connections, lift pump, filter head leaks, and so on to cause leaks and intrusion. Now its just a logical system: tank to FSV to epump to filters to hose to IP.

I know that's a bit off topic, but I'd recommend deleting that lift pump asap. And also, if you can work it out, run a new line from the epump to your filter head.

 

[Thewespaul]

Because the e-pump is an unknown in both age and make, but has been EXTREMELY helpful in priming the system many times.

However... I'm at an impass here. Good news is I have tracked down my fuel leak/oil leak and most likely my entire problem from today.

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

The fuel line is NOT supposed to be shaking around like a leaf in a windstorm.... Somehow my mechanical pump decided to "discard" one of it's mounting bolts. I would assume it simply vibrated out and is not broken off in the hole. I now have a few problems to deal with.

1. I need to figure out what size bolt is supposed to go in there. I would assume they are both the same thread, but the one that's AWOL is the one towards the radiator.

2. I need to figure out my pump situation. I have a second vehicle, but it's not without it's own set of issues. I can certainly replace my mechanical pump, but truthfully I've always been leery of not having a backup plan. Ideally I'd separate the e-pump with a valve and rely on the mechanical but have the e-pump as a secondary.

I'm the one everyone else depends on without really having anyone who can come save my bacon. Redundancy has become necessary for me....

Sorry I didn’t see this sooner, you can take the bolt out of your filter support bracket and use it on the lift pump for the time being. Here’s a picture of what I’m talking about

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To answer you second question, here’s what I would do. Leave the mechanical pump on the engine and run just the electric fuel pump for the time being. If you ever have issues with the electric fuel pump just swap the lines around to use the mechanical, or at a later time use a valve. On all my trucks that run e pumps they have a spare mechanical pump stowed away just in case, but as long as you aren’t towing super heavy you can usually make it home with a dead e pump if it’s a good one and not a poor design that won’t free flow. The stock mechanical pumps won’t free flow when they crap out

 

[genscripter]

To answer you second question, here’s what I would do. Leave the mechanical pump on the engine and run just the electric fuel pump for the time being. If you ever have issues with the electric fuel pump just swap the lines around to use the mechanical, or at a later time use a valve. On all my trucks that run e pumps they have a spare mechanical pump stowed away just in case, but as long as you aren’t towing super heavy you can usually make it home with a dead e pump if it’s a good one and not a poor design that won’t free flow. The stock mechanical pumps won’t free flow when they crap out

I've always wondered if when someone leaves a mechanical pump on the block, should he create a closed loop topped off with a little bit of diesel, so that the lift pump stay lubricated while the cam is pumping the lever?

 

[79jasper]

Likely wouldn't hurt.
Would also keep anything from getting inside it.

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[Joseph Davis]

When I bought my 1990 F-250 someone had already deleted the mechanical fuel pump but never fixed any of the air intrusion problems so I had to figure them out. truck ran out of gas little under 1/4 tank replaced both tank pickup tubes. on return lines to tanks had split lines to tank so the leaks left the truck under powered. I got rid of the Mr. Gasket fuel pump and went to an electric Carter Diesel Fuel Pump with a pressure regulator so I could find the sweet spot for power. I replaced all fuel line with rubber lines and my truck pull hills like a dream. The truck when air got into system ran good for a second then fell to no power so it surged a lot. Now just crack the pedal an take off fast with plenty of power big different from when I got the truck. I know that if any air gets into the system it causes a whole lot of problem but now I know what to look for! all I had to do was fallow the advice from all of the oil burner members, and **** what a truck. Thanks Oil Burners

 

[chillman88]

Thanks everyone.

Short term plans are put the old mechanical pump back on to block the hole (replaced a good one when my FSV died) and bypass it.

If that's a 3/8 bolt I should have one in the garage anyway. Thanks Wes.

Longer term plans. I ordered this

https://www.amazon.com/Delphi-FE0539-Universal-Fuel-Pump/dp/B00MBHYGI2

For $45 shipped. I can't swing a Facet and this one should work fine. Basically a carter P4070. Also ordered a block off plate. I can keep the good mechanical pump in the toolbox in the truck.

I'll be putting it in hopefully next weekend while I get soaked anyway installing my tank selector valve that should be here Tuesday.

All I have to find now is a couple of 3/8 pre-filters to put in before the valve and keep it from jamming up on old showerhead chunks. I'm sure they won't be hard to find locally though.

 

[chillman88]

Evening update.

I got a standard 3/8-16 bolt about 1" long from the bin in the garage. Got that tightened up and snugged down the other bolt too.

I had to use my vise grips to get the hard line loosened, my wrench was just slipping. Got the rubber line to squeeze over the flare and put the clamp back on it.

Seems to have done the trick. I still saw a few drops but I think it's just the mechanical pump emptying itself out since I didn't see anything around the hose and there wasn't much anyway.

Hopefully I can let this thread die in peace now. I'll update if anything else turns up lol!

 

[raydav]

In the original setup, the fuel filter light is activated by a vacuum switch, and mine did trip when the filter got dirty, but before it effected performance.

My van, both with the 460 it came with, and the IDI from a similar van, never had a mechanical pump. The original pump was in the tank, and ate itself. I replaced that with an inline on the frame. After I had the IDI for a while I scrapped that system, and put a Racor on the frame followed by the original vacuum switch. I still had and have the inline pump from the 460.

And I have driven off with the inline pump off and the engine did not seem to notice. The pump does have an output check valve but flows enough when off.

 

[79jasper]

I guarantee you, the idi van did not come with a in tank pump.

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