Need advice on battery cable replacement kit

WrenchWhore

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@scsmith42 I may get flake for this but in my opinion from working on big container ship generators it's in my experience that crimping cables with the correct size terminal with the correct chimp tool gives the best results for high vibration areas. Almost all connections i've done on larger gauge cable using solder only (above 6 AWG) cracked in higher vibration areas over time.
 

scsmith42

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@scsmith42 I may get flake for this but in my opinion from working on big container ship generators it's in my experience that crimping cables with the correct size terminal with the correct chimp tool gives the best results for high vibration areas. Almost all connections i've done on larger gauge cable using solder only (above 6 AWG) cracked in higher vibration areas over time.

What you say makes perfect sense.

What I like about the soldered connections is that there is no room for oxidation to develop in between the cable and a crimped connector. On the other hand, a properly applied heat shrink tubing can mitigate that.

And…. My 40 year old soldered cables that are still in use are on a gasoline vehicle, which has less engine vibration than a diesel gen set.

Thanks for sharing your experience.
 

DirtyWood

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The problem is getting a proper crimp. There's an ocean of difference between chinese knock-offs and something like AMP Roto-Crimp. I pity the fool who makes battery cables with a hammer crimper.
 

XOLATEM

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I pity the fool who makes battery cables with a hammer crimper.

When I had access to a crimper that looked like a pair of bolt cutters I used that.

Otherwise, I used a field crimper that you screwed tight with a battery-powered impact drill. It is all I had at the time.

Does this fool deserve some pity, as well...?

I am looking for a small tin cup to hold out and I might be able to round up a crutch while I am composing my cardboard sign....
 

scsmith42

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When I had access to a crimper that looked like a pair of bolt cutters I used that.

Thomas and Betts crimper perhaps? I have one that's around 50 years old, and also have a newer imported hydraulic model. They both do a pretty good job.

I mainly used them on single and three phase electrical lugs, but have done some battery cables with them as well.
 

ttman4

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When I had access to a crimper that looked like a pair of bolt cutters I used that.

Does this fool deserve some pity, as well...?

I am looking for a small tin cup to hold out and I might be able to round up a crutch while I am composing my cardboard sign....
My crimpers look like big bolt cutters, about 34" long. ( I took a pic of them but can't remember how to post a pic from phone over onto OB.......Somebody refresh my memory & tell me how to do it PLEASE.......???)

And I've had my crimpers for OVER 50 yrs!!! Yrs ago when we still lived in Texas had a SUPER GOOD FRIEND neighbor that worked for the Light Co.
He gave me LOTS of things the Light Co was getting rid of, then they buy new tools etc etc.

And @XOLATEM ....Pity & a tin cup headed your way! Just like a "Check's in the mail!" ...."Pity in the mail" Pity for that hammer *******!
Thomas and Betts crimper perhaps? I have one that's around 50 years old, and also have a newer imported hydraulic model. They both do a pretty good job.
And @scsmith42 my crimpers are KEARNEY brand. Never heard of that brand.
BTW, the bigger crimp hole is nearly 1/2" and non-removable The smaller crimp hole is just shy of 3/8" and made up of 2 removable crimping pieces.
Originally I had 2 other pair of inserts for that spot but have lost them thru the years. IIRC one pair crimped cable about 5/8" or less. and the other pair crimped down to about 1/4"+.

And really, maybe someone can tell me how to or what I need to do to post a pic from my phone over onto OB..... I have in the past but been a while & I can't member how I did it.
Probably so easy & simple I'll feel like an absolute FOOL!!!!!
 

DirtyWood

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When I had access to a crimper that looked like a pair of bolt cutters I used that.

Otherwise, I used a field crimper that you screwed tight with a battery-powered impact drill. It is all I had at the time.

Does this fool deserve some pity, as well...?

I am looking for a small tin cup to hold out and I might be able to round up a crutch while I am composing my cardboard sign....
I'm looking for my little violin right now.

And of course, any crimper is better than no crimper if it gets you home.
 

scsmith42

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And @scsmith42 my crimpers are KEARNEY brand. Never heard of that brand.
BTW, the bigger crimp hole is nearly 1/2" and non-removable The smaller crimp hole is just shy of 3/8" and made up of 2 removable crimping pieces.
Originally I had 2 other pair of inserts for that spot but have lost them thru the years. IIRC one pair crimped cable about 5/8" or less. and the other pair crimped down to about 1/4"+.
Kearney makes top of the line equipment for utility linesmen. Does yours have the fiberglass handles?

My T&B crimpers were not linesmen tools, but rather commercial electricians models. They have removable and exchangeable jaws that allow me to crimp from 3/0 to #10.
 

reelfishin

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I almost never buy premade cables, I use tinned copper ends, adhesive type shrink wrap and vinyl over wrap on good oil resistant cable.
I made a set for my 1986 back in 1998 and they were still in perfect shape when I sold it in 2004, and as far as I know are still on it where it lives now. (A buddy bought it when he retired and moved to Virginia).
I bought all the crimpers and cutters, my thought was that owning them will save me more than they cost over a lifetime vs buying cables that are rarely made to last.

Another option is go find heavy truck garage or Auto Electric shop, most have the ability to make custom cables on the spot. Take the cables you need made there to be copied or measure out what you need. I worked for a number of years for a shop that maintained fleet vehicles, they had bulk wire and a huge assortment of cable ends in stock as they maintained both trucks and several fleets of buses.
 

ttman4

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Kearney makes top of the line equipment for utility linesmen. Does yours have the fiberglass handles?

My T&B crimpers were not linesmen tools, but rather commercial electricians models. They have removable and exchangeable jaws that allow me to crimp from 3/0 to #10.
No @scsmith42 they are metal handles./
Actually I was back out at my shop- & looked. They look like someone stuffed some stout
1 1/4" copper tubes in place of where probably fiberglass handles went. They are in there stout, & are tough, I've crimped lots things thru the years!

This morning I took pic of them, but flat-out can't figure out how to post a pic!.....
Can someone go ahead & tell me? I have posted in the past but been a while.....
 

BeastMaster

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Use the "attach files" button at the bottom, left of the orange "post reply" button. You will open a file manager. You will need to know the file name of your photo and where it is.

A note on solder. You want 60/40 ( Tin/Lead ) or 63/37 ( Eutectic ) solder, Rosin core ( For electronic work ). You do NOT want plumbing solder ( acid core , often 40/60 or 50/50 ). Acid core is corrosive and you will have problems later.

Disintegrated green copper powder where the cable used to be.

The good stuff we used to use is no longer sold because of it's lead content. But that tin/lead alloy was the best we had for a good metallurgical wetting.


When I have had to do lug attachment for severe environments, I strip and tin ( saturate with solder ) both the stranded cable end, and the interior of the lug after a good mechanical cleaning with sandpaper, use plenty of flux and solder to tin the inside. While still hot, I pick up the hot lug and fling it onto the floor to remove excess molten solder and flux residue. When it's cool enough to handle, I inspect my tinning job to verify I have a good "wet", that is, I have a nice thin layer of fresh solder all over the inside surface of my lug. I also verify the strands of my copper cable are also thoroughly wetted. Try not to mess up the "lay" of the wire, so the wire doesn't splay out and create voids. If I am trying to tin old wire, it may take me several tries using fresh flux and solder to get a good solder wet on the strands. Reinspect and re-do until you get it right.

What I am after is the clean hermetic seal the subsequent soldering of lug to wire will provide. If any water gets in there, I am just setting myself up for future misery.

Once I am convinced the wire and lug are properly wetted with fresh solder ( if the solder is forming balls and voids, that is NOT an acceptable wet. It should smoothly coat the surface and drip off at the lowest point. If the solder is balling up like water on wax paper, it ain't wet. Needs better cleaning, more flux, and another try.

Now assemble the wire onto the lug. Trim excess. If loose, crimp. Then reflow the solder, with more flux and more solder will wick in, filling any voids in the connection with liquid solder.

Again wipe away excess with a rag, let cool, inspect and clean up rough edge, and do the heat shrink tubing for a finishing seal.

Back to the solder:

I haven't had much success with these new lead free solders. Seems like some sort of metallurgical incompatibility. The joint won't wet right, and comes out brittle.

Now, the element Tin ( Stannum, Sn ), is getting expensive. Today's solder has a lot of tin, and they keep trying to find other metals to replace lead. I haven't found anything that works as well ( metallurgically speaking ) as lead does as far as intermetallic bonding/wetting.

The big boys won't touch it. It won't meet ROHS Lead-Free standards. No one is going to be eating electrical connectors anyway. Do this right and you will never have to do this again.

Old school lead based solder can still be found on eBay, usually as partial spools like someone bought an old fixit shop and selling off the pieces. I have bought close to 100 pounds of mixed solder remnants off eBay.

I got it cheaper by accepting mixed lots of scrap solder, as I also use solder for other things.

For now, most people are using the new stuff and eBay has an ample selection of small quantities of odds and ends of various solders. Do not use acid flux solder.

Search eBay for "vintage 60/40 solder". And a fresh tin of rosin paste flux. The solder alloy is a metal. It doesn't age. I have seen rosin lose potency with age and the solder fails to wet as expected. The old solder may have surface oxidation. Upon melting, this rises to the surface along with the flux residue and should be wiped off while the solder is still molten, leaving behind a clean well wetted shiny joint. Not only is the solder a conductor of electricity, it is also a water displacer ( filler of voids ), as well as offering mechanical support. The ideal is to keep any battery acid from ever wicking up the copper battery cables.

One other thing I have seen coming out: "CCA wire". That isn't Cold Cranking Amperes. It stands for "Copper Clad Aluminum". It looks and feels like solid copper. But the underlying aluminum does not have the physical or electrical characteristics of pure copper.

Solder will dissolve copper. That is why it wets with a strong intermetallic bond. There is secondary alloying going on inside a solder joint. Ever tried to solder onto aluminum? For me that has been tricky at best. The fact solder does dissolve copper is why I have to keep changing tips in my soldering tools. The liquid solder keeps dissolving them!

I got fooled with some CCA wire by trying to solder it to a connector, only to discover I could not tin the wire properly. Turns out I was washing the copper cladding off with liquid solder, and the remaining aluminum did not have the intermetallic properties to bond at the aluminum-copper interface.

I could not trust anything I made with that wire. Crimp only. Bad news. Aluminum does not spring back like copper, and dimensional recovery from thermal cycling accelerated connection failure. It's the reason they no longer wire houses with aluminum wire. Too many fires.

@snicklas :

I probably put this post in the wrong place; I just wanted to share things I have learned with this community. Maybe I can save someone else a do-over, and, more important, why.
 

TahoeTom

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CDD sells a set also.
 

ttman4

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Use the "attach files" button at the bottom, left of the orange "post reply" button. You will open a file manager. You will need to know the file name of your photo and where it is.



@snicklas :

I probably put this post in the wrong place; I just wanted to share things I have learned with this community. Maybe I can save someone else a do-over, and, more important, why.
@BeastMaster Thanks. I'll get it figured out somehow. Sad/stupid/silly thing is that in the past I've posted pics on here on OB. Been a while & I got a new upgraded 16+ phone I'm still learning.

And as far as your write up @BeastMaster it's GOOD!! Needs to be saved in the "GOOD" section.
While in some my college years went to work for a guy building houses & apartments. Learned to solder all the copper plumbing in everything, copper tubing with lead solder. Soldered many other plumbing things with lead solder till about mid-'80's when I learned better!
 

DougBoy66

That is a HORRIBLE idea!!!!!! What time?
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I used these from CDD on my 94 IDI. They are a nice set
 
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