6.9 idi getting blowback when glow plugs are removed.

[Cmasob]

I'm not a diesel guy but my son was given a 1984 f250 6.9. It's been setting for around 15 years. Been trying to get the engine to start and I'm getting a vapor coming out of the intake when turning it over. I was told to remove the glow plugs, which have been replaced, and turn the motor over faster to pump up the lifters. When I turned the engine over without the glow plugs a mist would come out of each hole. I'm unable to tell if it's coolant it doesn't really have a smell. The electric fuel pump was turned off. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

 

[Nero]

It is most likely vapor fuel or crankcase gasses, as they return to the intake.

Don't use starting fluid, or a whole bunch of it, as it can damage the heads and rings.

 

[Cmasob]

Should it stop blowing it out at some point? I haven't used any starting fluid yet.

 

[Nero]

If you have power to the fuel shutoff solenoid, no, it'll keep injecting fuel and will still look like a light white mist.
How are the glow plugs themselves? You need most if not all working in order to start these engines.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

If you have power to the fuel shutoff solenoid, no, it'll keep injecting fuel and will still look like a light white mist.

It's this. These engines have a compression ratio that's over 20:1. This is why you see fuel coming out of the glow plug holes. Whoever told you to crank the engine over faster to pump up the lifters with oil wasn't exactly right. Yes it will probably work, but I feel that it's a waste of time. The oil pumps on the engines are absolutely amazing. There's a piston cooling jet that squirts oil on the bottom sides of the pistons to help keep them cool. That means that there's 8 internal oil leaks while the engine's running. The oil pumps are able to make up for those and still keep 10+ PSI of oil pressure on a hot idle. There won't be any issues with the oil pump not pumping up the lifters quickly enough as long as there's not something else wrong (such as a blockage in a oil galley). I'd recommend putting the glow plugs back in and trying to start the engine without ether. If that doesn't work, try plugging in the block heater for 3 or 4 hours. Try to start the engine again. If it starts then, you know that the glow plugs aren't working for some reason. The 6.9 style of glow plug controller has a habit of sticking in the "on" position so that the glow plugs are being powered until they burn out. That's the reason for the test I recommended.

 

[Cmasob]

I have replaced the glow plugs and have verified voltage to each connector. When I pulled the glow plugs out they were oily. I have put an electric fuel pump on it and it was turned off. I've put a link to a video showing the truck trying to start. It has new glow plugs, injectors and a remaned IP. I'm getting fuel to the injectors. I've bled the fuel system at the schrader valve and have replaced the rubber fuel lines and return fuel lines. I installed a new rear fuel tank and fuel pick up. The mid tank is removed and I'm bypassing the tank actuator at the moment until I add the mid tank. The glow plugs are on a push button switch, the previous owner bypassed the glow plug controller.

Thanks for the help.

6.9 idi - Google Drive

drive.google.com

 

[IDIBRONCO]

For a quick fix, you can run a piece of fuel line down from the lift pump (the mechanical pump on the passenger's side of the engine) into a can of clean diesel to eliminate any issues from there back to the tank. You'll run fuel back out to the fuel tank on the truck if you do this. These have a constant flow fuel system like a car with EFI. There's a fuel return.
Next come the question of where did you buy the pump and injectors? There's only 3 widely known good places to get them. This may not be the issue since you're definitely getting fuel into the cylinders.
Next, inevitably, someone will suggest that you do a compression test. I feel like this is not a good indicator of the condition of the engine at this time. You're not a diesel guy, but I'm assuming that you have knowledge of gasoline engines and this part is the same for both. The engine has sat for 15 years. The rings are no longer seated after not running for that long. You will have a low compression reading that will probably be falsely low. A true compression reading needs to be taken after the rings have had time to reseat. If you're curious, you could do a before and after reading, but don't take the first one as how the engine is.
The next question should be how fast is the engine turning over? If it's not turning over fast enough, it won't start. Your batteries, cables, and cable connections need to be in good shape. If it still has the original style of starter, that may be the direct drive that was made by Delco-Remy. Those are junk in my opinion and barely started the engine when everything was in good shape.

 

[rreegg]

Per that video - crank speed seems a bit slow to me.

 

[Nero]

Also note, theres a lot of... Healthy discussion about in line electric pumps, and the high pressure pump is sensitive to flow and volume. If you are stock and the mechanical lift pump is fine, I suggest using it.

How did you test the glow plugs? Just making sure voltage at the plugs isn't enough.

 

[Cmasob]

Since I'm getting away from the original topic let me know if I need to start a new thread. I bought the injectors and IP from swagperformanceparts.com. I put in Motorcraft glow plugs. I checked the new glow plugs and verified that they were under 1 ohm. I can easily hook the mechanical pump back and test with it again. The electrical pump pushes around 7psi. I have 2 new batteries and because it did seem to be a little slow when spinning, I put a battery charger on it. Will the rings re-seat themselves? I did fill the fuel filter with atf when I installed it, to help lube things back up. I will look into replacing the starter. Do you have a recommendation on they best type of starter to get?

Thanks

 

[IDIBRONCO]

The electrical pump pushes around 7psi.

It's not the pressure, it's the volume of fuel that the pump can push. Remember that these have a constant flow fuel system like a gas engine with EFI does.

Will the rings re-seat themselves?

Yes after running or a while. I can't say how long it will take though.

Do you have a recommendation on they best type of starter to get?

The best starters are generally considered to be a Power Master 9050. They are high priced though. A m a z o n has some cheap ones listed for under $150. They are probably Chinese made and might not last very long, but would do for at first. I had one that lasted for 6+ years. It was still working, but I was having battery issues and thought it was the starter. I put a Power Master on and it didn't fix the starting problem. It did, however, spin the engine faster than the cheap starter did. If you buy one from A m a z o n, you'll want one that has a solenoid that looks like it's as big as the starter body. Parts store starters are a crap shoot these days. They may last for several years, they may only last a few months. The only parts store starter I bought did last for about 10 years so I didn't get hurt that way.

 

[Nero]

I dont think anyone here has had good or bad luck with swag performance pumps and stuff, I know I have purchased a few odd gaskets from them with good results though.

When you replaced the pump, did you take the timing gear off or did you take the pump off the gear? Did you bleed the air out of the system? It'll take a lot of cranking to bleed it fully.

 

[Cmasob]

I removed the pump from the gear. I removed the 3 bolts from the gear and removed the pump. I left the gear in place. I bled the the lines using the schrader valve and cracked the lines at the injectors to make sure I was getting fuel to the injectors.

 

[Nero]

Okay you did it all the right way then. With all 8 lines cracked loose, do you get a nice healthy spritz from each injector as its cranking over? Or is it just lightly bubbling and streaming a little?

 

[Cmasob]

It was lightly bubbling. I was wondering if that was because the engine wasn't turning over quick enough.