WMO thinners

[phazertwo]

I am about to do some serious testing with thinners for WMO.

My goal: make a WMO formulation that has the same viscosity as #2, even in the winter, for ~$1 per gallon.

Testing Method: Put different formulations in jars, including pure #2 diesel, than shack and watch. Freeze, and repeat.

I am also thinking of trying a lubricity test. Maybe make a metal slide and slide something down it, than add formulas and see which one goes further.

Chemicals I am going to try to cut with:

-Kerosene (at $4 per gallon that limits me to 25% kero to make my $1 budget)
-Gas (85 octane, not to exceed 10%) (good for thinning and as an anti gel)


Let me know what other things you have used to cut your WMO.

PZ

 

[Brad S.]

phazertwo,
Hey if you haven't already done it jump over to the Diesel fuel, additives section in this area. Read the post by devilish about his mineral oil. That stuff sounds like good stuff for what your doing.

 

[Armo]

In another forum i was on someone was cutting it with gasoline aka rug. Id be scared of that one cause of possible high egts but he claims to have been doing it for years with out an issue. Just straight rug and oil.
Kero works someone on here was using it as a thinner with great success but a cheaper alternative in some areas is jet a1 since its almost exactly like kero and can be crossed to kero applications. I run it myself in space heaters sometimes with a mix of wmo and successfully done so down to -15F with a highly diluted mix about 1 gallon wmo to 10gallon jet a1. At the time i was getting jet a1 it was about on par with the price of diesel given maybe 10-25 cents a gallon difference.
Best of luck with your experiment should be interesting to read what you find.

 

[h2odrx]

I use ATF and Veggie

 

[phazertwo]

I use ATF and Veggie

These would be nice, but I am trying to make a formula that is equal to #2 in viscosity. All the ATF I have seen is thicker.

PZ

 

[Devilish]

In another forum i was on someone was cutting it with gasoline aka rug. Id be scared of that one cause of possible high egts but he claims to have been doing it for years with out an issue. Just straight rug and oil.
Kero works someone on here was using it as a thinner with great success but a cheaper alternative in some areas is jet a1 since its almost exactly like kero and can be crossed to kero applications. I run it myself in space heaters sometimes with a mix of wmo and successfully done so down to -15F with a highly diluted mix about 1 gallon wmo to 10gallon jet a1. At the time i was getting jet a1 it was about on par with the price of diesel given maybe 10-25 cents a gallon difference.
Best of luck with your experiment should be interesting to read what you find.

I'm one of those guys who have been thinning wmo with rug. Also people give be old gas that even smells bad and I'll use that too.

 

[Armo]

How are the EGTs? Im getting a huge shipment of wmo and if rug really doesnt cause an issue in a cummins then i might go that route to save a bit more money.

 

[phazertwo]

*** is rug? I know you said its gas, but if it is than why call it rug?

 

[Devilish]

Read my post http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49875 I did some road testing yesterday . Run #4 pertains to you. I mix about 10% rug 90% wmo. You can mix a higher percentage wmo in winter. I'd recommend not more than 20% actually 17% should be the ceiling.
rug= regular unleaded gas

 

[Devilish]

Armo, I Strongly recommend that you do your own testing. Start with 25% wmo 75% diesel and move up from there. I'm what would be an extreme cocktail mixer. I take no responsibility for what others do. I say all this because I'm running an old school mechanical pump/injector engine. You have a truck that has a fuel management system, that could be sensitive at alt fuels. Also the extreme costs of replacement parts for your truck would make ME shy to do what I do to your truck.
I hope your truck has 2 tanks because you should always start on pure diesel and shut down on it. A pyrometer is mandatory so you can monitor the egt to prevent catastrophe.

 

[wmoguy]

*** is rug? I know you said its gas, but if it is than why call it rug?

Rug= regular unleaded gasoline


I think we are close bud. 5 gallons of diesel, 5 gallons of kereosene, 1 gallon of gas, 45 gallons of WMO. She's close. I can tell the centrifuge is happy cleaning it without heat. I couldn't do that very well with only 5 gallons of diesel. I'm thinking 12 gallons of kero, 1-2 gallons of gas and we got it made. Come get some fuel next week if u need it so we can get to the next batch of testing.

 

[phazertwo]

Rug= regular unleaded gasoline


I think we are close bud. 5 gallons of diesel, 5 gallons of kereosene, 1 gallon of gas, 45 gallons of WMO. She's close. I can tell the centrifuge is happy cleaning it without heat. I couldn't do that very well with only 5 gallons of diesel. I'm thinking 12 gallons of kero, 1-2 gallons of gas and we got it made. Come get some fuel next week if u need it so we can get to the next batch of testing.

I plan on coming up the day after I get my fuge! I wanna hook it up to your set up and see if your pump will power both. Also I PMed dude about the pump/motor combo. If all goes well I will be sending him money in the next day!

I should be doing my test tomorrow, I am going for a mix will all kero, than 3 mixes of various levels of kero and gas. I Figure the ol' pour it on the ground and put the map gas torch to it will tell me if I have to much gas. To much gas means it burns to fast. If it burns allot faster than diesel, its a no go. Keep things from coking that way.

PZ

Edit: I will need that fuel. I just emptied my front tank to day, and am eager to try the new mix. I am hoping my POS Pensacola pump will like this thinner fuel better!

 

[wmoguy]

Cool. Well ill have 55 gallons ready by tomorrow night or Monday morning. I've got 21 gallons earmarked. Rest has your name on it. Come up Tuesday evening and get it. Wednesday I'll start collecting a new batch so I'm set for camping next weekend.

 

[Armo]

Armo, I Strongly recommend that you do your own testing. Start with 25% wmo 75% diesel and move up from there. I'm what would be an extreme cocktail mixer. I take no responsibility for what others do. I say all this because I'm running an old school mechanical pump/injector engine. You have a truck that has a fuel management system, that could be sensitive at alt fuels. Also the extreme costs of replacement parts for your truck would make ME shy to do what I do to your truck.
I hope your truck has 2 tanks because you should always start on pure diesel and shut down on it. A pyrometer is mandatory so you can monitor the egt to prevent catastrophe.

Oh no no no i dont blindly just do what everyone in the forums is doing i just like to see how far they have went with a few things so i dont end up making a to extreme blend or miss something that others were watching while on a blend. I take what i see to set how slowly i start mixing. Its like moving/changing the fuel plate in my cummins some people never have a problem cause they watch that egt gauge and back it down when they see excessive temps but excessive to one person may not be to excessive to others. An example is my father used my pickup a few times to haul cattle and let it dog really bad on a hill 45 mph peaks but couldnt hold a steady speed on a straight letting the speed fluctuate from 65-90 mph on flats. He would burn 1-2 quarts of oil at the end of the day. I do the same trip maxing at 80 cause of speed wandering down a long hill and i dont dog out on hills maybe dropping down to 60 mph 3/4- maybe 7/8 peddle to not tear 5th gear out and due to my faster trip times and higher speed hill peaks one would think i drove it harder yet since i consume no oil on my trips i take that as the real story behind how hard it was really driven.
I asked on egts mostly since i had a friend burn his up with rug(he would add 1 gallon to every 10 of #2 for the winter as an antigel) Also when i do drive its for long trips and i dont have a second tank just one large 35 gallon tank. Ive been doing way lower mixes maybe 2.5 gallons to the 35 gallon tank and i wont run that in the winter tried and it hazes white pretty harshly and smells of misted oil , but those are in temps of 0F on below. Yet i have a skid steer where i can do a similar ratio of oil mix and have ran it all the way down to -10 with a slight haze and oil myst smell that quickly disapates and with this mix it seems to fire easier then it did on 50/50 1#2#.
I appreciete all the input this forum is giving me i didnt mean to make anyone nervouse. I was simpling asking to be a bit better informed before i even chance messing around with rug cause i know for a fact it will mess a diesel up and do so quickly in large mixtures.

 

[Devilish]

I think rug in #2 diesel can be risky but you have more leeway with wmo. My disclaimers were actually for everyone. Basically everything we do and the advice given is at everyone's own risk.