NO_SPRK
User & Abuser
Ok cool. Not many people have that tool. Viton seals for sure!
The little 300D that could.
- Thread starter Josh Carmack
- Start date
Josh Carmack
Full Access Member
Just have to figure out where I put it, it was on my desk a couple months ago, but now I can't find it. Pretty sure my wife while fussing at me under her breath decided to "put it up" which means she chucked in with the rest of my tools in the wrong draw and the wrong box so it'll take some looking.
Josh Carmack
Full Access Member
Last update, the car has redeemed itself...
I went to visit a customer that owed me a little money yesterday. After getting paid and chatting it up for a bit I left for home only to get a mile or two down the road to find myself stranded. Car was idling fine, but the throttle wouldn't respond. Panicked for a few seconds as I rolled through the intersection painfully and embarrassingly slow and pulled over on the shoulder right beside the police station. Got out and checked under the hood to find part of the throttle linkage broken but repairable. Screwed it back together and got a few miles down the road again and it broke again. Instead of trying to screw it back on, the second time I jammed the rod as deep as it would go back into the ball linkage hoping it would get me home. It did, and it ran like a firecracker all the way there. Out on the route today it ran absolutely great, back to being the better performer than the rest of the cars like it was right after I fixed the turbo problem it had. It was on pure waste gear oil. It ran great, downshifted like it was supposed to, and the injector knock even got better as the day progressed. I'm guessing that as the time went by over the last few months it has slowly been separating and slowly allowing me to be able to give it less and less throttle. This is the 7th or 8th tank of pure waste oil in the tank and it hasn't missed a beat and after today I have decided my troubles were mostly due to leaking delivery valves(still not fixed) broken throttle linkage, and a bad first few tanks of waste oil. If i do not get called to work tomorrow it's gets new intake gaskets and valve seals. and some new glow plugs as it seems some of gone down in the last few weeks. While I am in there i will find the knocking injector and replace it, I will also provide pictures of the injectors from a car that has never seen waste oil, and this one which has approximately 15K on waste oil. If I can remember I will also take pictures of everything else(super sucker and storage system), including how I repair my fuge rotors after over pressuring them.
I went to visit a customer that owed me a little money yesterday. After getting paid and chatting it up for a bit I left for home only to get a mile or two down the road to find myself stranded. Car was idling fine, but the throttle wouldn't respond. Panicked for a few seconds as I rolled through the intersection painfully and embarrassingly slow and pulled over on the shoulder right beside the police station. Got out and checked under the hood to find part of the throttle linkage broken but repairable. Screwed it back together and got a few miles down the road again and it broke again. Instead of trying to screw it back on, the second time I jammed the rod as deep as it would go back into the ball linkage hoping it would get me home. It did, and it ran like a firecracker all the way there. Out on the route today it ran absolutely great, back to being the better performer than the rest of the cars like it was right after I fixed the turbo problem it had. It was on pure waste gear oil. It ran great, downshifted like it was supposed to, and the injector knock even got better as the day progressed. I'm guessing that as the time went by over the last few months it has slowly been separating and slowly allowing me to be able to give it less and less throttle. This is the 7th or 8th tank of pure waste oil in the tank and it hasn't missed a beat and after today I have decided my troubles were mostly due to leaking delivery valves(still not fixed) broken throttle linkage, and a bad first few tanks of waste oil. If i do not get called to work tomorrow it's gets new intake gaskets and valve seals. and some new glow plugs as it seems some of gone down in the last few weeks. While I am in there i will find the knocking injector and replace it, I will also provide pictures of the injectors from a car that has never seen waste oil, and this one which has approximately 15K on waste oil. If I can remember I will also take pictures of everything else(super sucker and storage system), including how I repair my fuge rotors after over pressuring them.
The FNG
NOT a Powerstroke!
Why don't you add a relief valve before your centrifuge? It's easy and would save some hassle... Oh, and what weight gear oil? I've got access to butt loads of the stuff, but opted not to use it from the horror stories.
FarmerFrank
Full Access Member
I also have ran multiple blends of heavy gear oil with 0 repercussions. Gear oil is by rated differently as motor oil in viscosity and 80/90 is close to the thickness as 15/40 motor oil. Can't remember where I found the chart that showed it but it was reputable
Josh Carmack
Full Access Member
seems to be 80-90
I have an adjustable relief, but it can't keep up with the pump if something blocks off the fuges. And then if I foolishly flip the bypass selection valve the wrong way the relief is before that so the fuge doesn't stand a chance. I have only deformed them once after I added the adjustable relief.
On the fuel I'm running now, it is thick, and I am very sure that if these cars didn't have a heat exchanger before the filter it wouldn't work. I'm not running it pure in the truck (pure coincidental both tanks were filled with diesel by a friend), so I cant speak for it. Once I run the tanks dry i will fill them with pure as well. The cars will not act right til the engine is able to heat the incoming fuel. I typically fill up in the morning, and leave it idling while doing so. On the days we just crank and go we get a half mile down the road and start starving for fuel. Both cars do it, little blue didn't stop starving for fuel until I was 4 miles down the road and the temp hand nearing normal this morning. They are drivable, but you have to be easy and slow til they warm up. Don't have a clue what the mic rating on the stock filters are on the cars, but they have a lot less surface area than the filter on my truck does. They also have 1/4" OD fuel lines under the hood, I'm sure that doesn't help either.
Another thing to mention is I am not 100 percent the fuel is pure gear oil. We originally thought it was heavy weight hydraulic possibly 50W or 60W, but when comparing drip rates/viscosity to 80-90 it's very similar, and the smell/look is too. When the oil is cold it works my pump pretty hard, and the pressure on the exhaust of the pump runs about 60PSI with everything open. In other words just the viscosity alone cause the outlet side of the pump to run 60PSI. Once the oil is up to 150 200 degrees it is pretty thin, and the open head pressure is around 5PSI. The hotter it gets the thinner it gets which makes me assume it does not have any viscosity modifiers as any engine oil would.
One thing to note, this batch processing right now I would have sworn it was almost dry, I pulled from the top 6 inches of a 275gal tote that was filled up to the neck. That tote has been sitting unmolested for 3 months. It boiled for a couple hours last night, and has been boiling for 4 hours today. It is starting to slow down, I figure another hour it'll be dry. Gear oil holds water extremely well from what i can tell. The oil was severely water contaminated when I picked it up, and a 2" trash pump was used to move it, water and all. The free water was drained off. This is water held in solution or emulsion. For about 2 hours it was a hard steady rolling boil with steam pouring off so thick it would reach the roof of the barn before it dispersed. Considering that, it may well explain the troubles people have had with getting it to work out. I don't know how well dissolved water can pass a water block filter. As far as i know I am the only one that heats my batches to well above boiling temperatures, I do it for this very reason. The reason I started doing it was because I accidentally left my heater on one day and the oil got so hot it started to smoke the paint and oil residue on the processing drum, as well as melting plastic stuff inside the drum including the insulator formed onto the end of the heating element. When I ran that batch, it was the smoothest running easiest cranking batch of any previous batch I had run. From that point forward, I have super heated all my batches at some point, usually before it goes through the fuges.
I have an adjustable relief, but it can't keep up with the pump if something blocks off the fuges. And then if I foolishly flip the bypass selection valve the wrong way the relief is before that so the fuge doesn't stand a chance. I have only deformed them once after I added the adjustable relief.
On the fuel I'm running now, it is thick, and I am very sure that if these cars didn't have a heat exchanger before the filter it wouldn't work. I'm not running it pure in the truck (pure coincidental both tanks were filled with diesel by a friend), so I cant speak for it. Once I run the tanks dry i will fill them with pure as well. The cars will not act right til the engine is able to heat the incoming fuel. I typically fill up in the morning, and leave it idling while doing so. On the days we just crank and go we get a half mile down the road and start starving for fuel. Both cars do it, little blue didn't stop starving for fuel until I was 4 miles down the road and the temp hand nearing normal this morning. They are drivable, but you have to be easy and slow til they warm up. Don't have a clue what the mic rating on the stock filters are on the cars, but they have a lot less surface area than the filter on my truck does. They also have 1/4" OD fuel lines under the hood, I'm sure that doesn't help either.
Another thing to mention is I am not 100 percent the fuel is pure gear oil. We originally thought it was heavy weight hydraulic possibly 50W or 60W, but when comparing drip rates/viscosity to 80-90 it's very similar, and the smell/look is too. When the oil is cold it works my pump pretty hard, and the pressure on the exhaust of the pump runs about 60PSI with everything open. In other words just the viscosity alone cause the outlet side of the pump to run 60PSI. Once the oil is up to 150 200 degrees it is pretty thin, and the open head pressure is around 5PSI. The hotter it gets the thinner it gets which makes me assume it does not have any viscosity modifiers as any engine oil would.
One thing to note, this batch processing right now I would have sworn it was almost dry, I pulled from the top 6 inches of a 275gal tote that was filled up to the neck. That tote has been sitting unmolested for 3 months. It boiled for a couple hours last night, and has been boiling for 4 hours today. It is starting to slow down, I figure another hour it'll be dry. Gear oil holds water extremely well from what i can tell. The oil was severely water contaminated when I picked it up, and a 2" trash pump was used to move it, water and all. The free water was drained off. This is water held in solution or emulsion. For about 2 hours it was a hard steady rolling boil with steam pouring off so thick it would reach the roof of the barn before it dispersed. Considering that, it may well explain the troubles people have had with getting it to work out. I don't know how well dissolved water can pass a water block filter. As far as i know I am the only one that heats my batches to well above boiling temperatures, I do it for this very reason. The reason I started doing it was because I accidentally left my heater on one day and the oil got so hot it started to smoke the paint and oil residue on the processing drum, as well as melting plastic stuff inside the drum including the insulator formed onto the end of the heating element. When I ran that batch, it was the smoothest running easiest cranking batch of any previous batch I had run. From that point forward, I have super heated all my batches at some point, usually before it goes through the fuges.
Josh Carmack
Full Access Member
Yall try these links see if they work, they do for me because I am logged into my profile. It is three images of the oil taken 30 minutes ago as the rolling boil had just about stopped.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=917330788282454&set=pcb.917330928282440&type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=917330834949116&set=pcb.917330928282440&type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=917330911615775&set=pcb.917330928282440&type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=917330788282454&set=pcb.917330928282440&type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=917330834949116&set=pcb.917330928282440&type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=917330911615775&set=pcb.917330928282440&type=1&theater
Josh Carmack
Full Access Member
Viscosity table which helps me to believe I am running gear oil, which we originally suspected as Hydraulic oil that I was super excited about a few months ago.
http://cdn.bobistheoilguy.com/bitogwp/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/ISOchart.png
http://cdn.bobistheoilguy.com/bitogwp/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/ISOchart.png
Josh Carmack
Full Access Member
This probably Isn't the last update....
Last week I did some badly needed maintenance on the little blue. Changed the delivery valve seals and did some other minor tweaking under the hood.
The injector knock is gone gone gone. Doesn't matter what fuel I'm on it runs like a MB was designed to run, smooth, strong and plenty of torque right up into 4500-4800 rpm. Still isn't quick enough on the jump to spin the tires, but she'll bark second if I hold it on the floor
. Starts easily now no matter how much fuel is in the tank. Before it was a pain in the ass to start hot or cold with less than 3/8th a tank. When the tank level was low enough it would siphon back from the injector pump and have to reprime the injector lines every time you cranked it.
Now it is apparent I need some GP's as the light hasn't been operating correctly for several weeks, but I chalked the hard starting up to the air intrusion. I'll work on those GPs next week, as it has already dropped off cool enough to want them correctly functioning. Part of my GP problem may very well be caused by the controller on the car. I robbed the GP controller of a 91 3.5L SDL. It had some extra pins the 87 didn't have, but it still plugged right in and lit the light for 20 seconds as it was supposed to. Recently though, the light does not come on until after the cycle to let me know there is a fault in the system. I'm assuming it's some bad plugs, and they may have been ruined by the out of spec controller. I'll have to call Mr Drost on that one and see if he can send me the correct controller. On the cold mornings we have had this past week it has taken as much as 30 seconds of crank to start it. I can tell at least two cylinders are getting a preglow as it will immediately hit on two cylinders within one second of cranking. It just takes it the rest of that time to start hitting on the rest.
Got a new set of rear control arms, rear, and front ball joints coming in the mail already. I'm really hoping the current front ball joints will make it the rest of the week. Just 1000 more miles of mail rt and I'll park it for repairs. Probably going to replace all the sub-frame bushings the week or two after that. Already got new struts all the way around. If all goes well I'll have new tie rods and sway bushings in it by Christmas.
My wife has relinquished little red to me so I can build a set of RHD pedals in it as well. The deal is I get to add pedals to it, but then I have to buy her the 300 SD we have been eyeballing for a few months now. The car is in pristine body and interior shape, good OM617 with less than 200K on the clock, but it needs a transmission. Gonna drop and repair the tranny in the 350SDL and it'll go in the 300SD for her. Then little red will be the knockaround car for both of us, and by my backup for the rt.
Last week I did some badly needed maintenance on the little blue. Changed the delivery valve seals and did some other minor tweaking under the hood.
The injector knock is gone gone gone. Doesn't matter what fuel I'm on it runs like a MB was designed to run, smooth, strong and plenty of torque right up into 4500-4800 rpm. Still isn't quick enough on the jump to spin the tires, but she'll bark second if I hold it on the floor
. Starts easily now no matter how much fuel is in the tank. Before it was a pain in the ass to start hot or cold with less than 3/8th a tank. When the tank level was low enough it would siphon back from the injector pump and have to reprime the injector lines every time you cranked it. Now it is apparent I need some GP's as the light hasn't been operating correctly for several weeks, but I chalked the hard starting up to the air intrusion. I'll work on those GPs next week, as it has already dropped off cool enough to want them correctly functioning. Part of my GP problem may very well be caused by the controller on the car. I robbed the GP controller of a 91 3.5L SDL. It had some extra pins the 87 didn't have, but it still plugged right in and lit the light for 20 seconds as it was supposed to. Recently though, the light does not come on until after the cycle to let me know there is a fault in the system. I'm assuming it's some bad plugs, and they may have been ruined by the out of spec controller. I'll have to call Mr Drost on that one and see if he can send me the correct controller. On the cold mornings we have had this past week it has taken as much as 30 seconds of crank to start it. I can tell at least two cylinders are getting a preglow as it will immediately hit on two cylinders within one second of cranking. It just takes it the rest of that time to start hitting on the rest.
Got a new set of rear control arms, rear, and front ball joints coming in the mail already. I'm really hoping the current front ball joints will make it the rest of the week. Just 1000 more miles of mail rt and I'll park it for repairs. Probably going to replace all the sub-frame bushings the week or two after that. Already got new struts all the way around. If all goes well I'll have new tie rods and sway bushings in it by Christmas.
My wife has relinquished little red to me so I can build a set of RHD pedals in it as well. The deal is I get to add pedals to it, but then I have to buy her the 300 SD we have been eyeballing for a few months now. The car is in pristine body and interior shape, good OM617 with less than 200K on the clock, but it needs a transmission. Gonna drop and repair the tranny in the 350SDL and it'll go in the 300SD for her. Then little red will be the knockaround car for both of us, and by my backup for the rt.
JPhauler87
Full Access Member
Just as a general impression I get from this thread... Doesn't seem like you are having much of an issue with coking in the MB motors. After 5 days of my 37 miles round trip commute and other misc trips, let's say a total of 5-6hrs of driving (since odometer only works 1/3 of the time haha) I'm starting to get a decent white haze with cold starts and a slightly noticeable amount of white smoke idling when warm. Should have the injector line heaters on tonight or tomorrow, hoping I can keep this thing running on free fuel without much hassle. For some reason the Ford IDI motors seem to do really well with wmo, but I have read lot of people saying almost every other IDI motor they try running this stuff in develops coking issues pretty quickly. Some say they accept the fact they have to pull the prechambers once a month and clean them and can do so in an hour after practice. I suppose that's not the worst thing in the world... But would be nice to not have to.
I'm running 2* advance timing and a good splash of grey bottle power service in the tank and was hoping that would make a big difference. We'll see if the injector line heaters help at all I guess.
I'm running 2* advance timing and a good splash of grey bottle power service in the tank and was hoping that would make a big difference. We'll see if the injector line heaters help at all I guess.
Josh Carmack
Full Access Member
Well, Since Friday I have been running pure D2 in everything. Little blue has a horrible diesel rattle ,well, maybe thats how it's supposed to sound on diesel, but I know it's got a loud clack clack clack at idle that is very prominent, and it goes away as soon as very light throttle is added. It's been long enough since I ran D2 in it that I don't remember if thats how it sounded before. That rattle did not surface until all the oil in the tank was diluted enough to say it's not really there anymore. I have heard tractors and powerstrokes that sounded worse, so it may be that I just haven't heard it in so long it's my imagination telling me it's bad. As far as coking goes, I don't know if that is known to cause the loud clack of a diesel worse or not. I have not pulled the injectors yet, I need to get the other ones out of the other car first, and strip it of it's usefulness and get it hauled to the bone yard.
How do you pull the chambers out of the aluminum heads, got any info on that?
How do you pull the chambers out of the aluminum heads, got any info on that?
JPhauler87
Full Access Member
Nope, no info on that. Haven't delved into it on either car. I'm sure I will need to on this one (maybe not) I read something about a couple different style chambers on the 603s when I was looking into it on the last one.
If you haven't hit a point where you were rolling down the road mosquito fogger status, you're doing better than I was with my 603. I had only started to experiment with advance timing and power service when it took a dump on me though, so who knows if those things will help.
If you haven't hit a point where you were rolling down the road mosquito fogger status, you're doing better than I was with my 603. I had only started to experiment with advance timing and power service when it took a dump on me though, so who knows if those things will help.
Josh Carmack
Full Access Member
Well, I can say that my tractor that has been in the family since the 70's sounds exactly as I remember from 20+ years ago, and when it's not on oil it get pump d2. The car is definitely clacking louder than it was when I bought it, BUT BUT BUT I changed the pump seals while it was on oil, all 6 valves were leaking, so it would not have the same injection profile then that it does now. I notices an instant improvement in off the jump performace as well as highway running. I am going to say that it's biggest difference is the fact that the injector pump injects more violently than it could with leaking delivery valves.
The "clack" means the timing is more advanced then retarded, correct???
At least thats what I've always thought, doing timing by ear, etc.
Please correct me if thats not right, because pretty soon I'll have my IDI going and don't want to have problems.(I know timing meter)
At least thats what I've always thought, doing timing by ear, etc.
Please correct me if thats not right, because pretty soon I'll have my IDI going and don't want to have problems.(I know timing meter)
