Should I switch to synthetic?

[Fixnstuff]

I look forward to the post about your oil choices. What do you use in your IDI?

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

Happy to answer this now.

My R. hand is wrapped in an ice pack so my intention was to make a short reply but as the swelling and pain improved I was eventually able to use both hands so this became a long post. I believe that EVERY BIT of it with all of the details is worth reading for most people who are considering a true Synthetic Oil!

I could hardly believe that I found THIS oil at the extraordinary low price I paid for it. I kept thinking that there must be a mistake somewhere, so I researched every detail over and over again for over two weeks and I can offer a couple of reasons at the end on why the price point is where it is.

NOTICE ALL of the approvals by so many different heavy duty diesel truck & equipment manufacturers in the USA & Europe, including THIS ONE:

MILES SXR FULL SYN 15W 40 also meets the extended drain requirements of Cummins CES 20076, Mack EO-O Premium Plus, and Volvo VDS.

When I get the time, I'll look up those extended oil drain interval tests and approvals and I fully expect them them to be at minimum 15,000 miles (24,140 km) and probably more likely up to 25,000 or 30,000 miles (40,234 - 48,280 km) by just changing filters and doing the recommended oil analyses intervals. '30,000 miles' is a number I remember seeing when reading about approved extended oil drain intervals.

HOWEVER, our IH/Navistar IDI engines by original design & engineering have more blow-by into the crankcase than more modern diesel engine designs so the best oils for our engines should be those with the best ability to hold the increased soot (carbon) and probably other contaminates in suspension. On that note I expect that as newer oils were formulated for newer diesel engine designs, they did not reduce the high detergent and and high particle suspension capabilities of of the oils so as to be backwards compatible with older engine designs and they probably improved those qualities for newer engines rather than reducing them because it is a major consideration for Diesel engine oils.

I'll also be using the microGreen filters that have tested and approved extended filter change interval ratings, filter down to particles greater than 1 micron and less than 2 microns, nominally rated for 2 micron filtration through the patented internal oil bypass filtration system. THAT will help a great deal in removing the suspended soot particles at 2+ micron size and of course the larger those particles are, the more damaging they can be. The ability of the oil to keep soot particles in suspension prevents them from attaching to and building up on the engine parts that are in contact with the oil, so that includes the upper engine and valve train.

I'll personally base my own oil drain interval decision upon one or maybe two oil analyses, the first being long after filter change from the fist to the second filter maybe at 12,000+ miles for the first oil analysis because I trust that the oil will be good for at least that long, with the oil I chose and these filters. I'll be able to get a good idea of how well it's working by just frequently examining the oil on the dipstick from the time I first fill it with this oil. I'll check the color first and the thickness or flow rate of the oil next because suspended soot (and perhaps other contaminates) cause the oil to thicken. That should be easy enough to detect between filter changes and the first filter will be changed somewhat sooner because it will be picking up residual soot/contaminates that are still in the engine after I drain the old oil. However, I am going to use an engine flush product just before I drain the oil conventional oil which will help to remove the residual soot/carbon but I want to make sure that it is compatible with synthetic oil. I'll be mentioning that in a different reply (which should be short) Here you go:

BTW, "FULL SYNTHETIC" in this case truly means formulated from 'synthetic base stocks" not conventional crude oil.

https://mileslubricants.com/product/show/1360

That is more testing & manufacturer's approvals for heavy duty/commercial/industrial diesel truck and industrial engines manufactured in the USA and Europe than every synthetic oil that I have looked at but I was not focusing on all of the approvals during that time. When I saw the typical approvals common to the conventional oils we normally use, Cat, Cummins, Detroit Diesel, Ford, etc., that was enough at the time. MY OBJECTIVE is Extended Oil Drain Intervals while maintaining the best protection so I was primarily looking for that.

NOW look at the Amazon.com listing. This is for (4 each) 5 quart plastic jugs = 20 quarts = 5 gallons:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01H6JWST...WTZEQBVD840&pd_rd_w=9aKR7#feature-bullets-btf

NOTE:

Domestic Shipping: Amazon only ships this item within the contiguous 48 United States. Other Sellers on Amazon may ship this item to Alaska, Hawaii and US Territories.

If you are outside of that area, ie: Canada, Alaska, etc. etc. Try the SAME listing, SAME price at Walmart.com https://www.walmart.com/ip/Milesyn-...-5-Quart-Bottle-Pack-of-4/49107865#about-item

OR: Go to the Miles Lubrication website (URL further above) and check their purchase options/distributors, (possibly order direct?)

One Amazon reviewer indicated that he only received 8 quarts of oil. (two gallons). A mistake was made somewhere with that order! Often it's the purchaser who screwed up the order.

To confirm that my order would be correct, I checked UPS Tracking of the shipment and the weight/label of the package shows 37 lbs which is consistent with 20 qts = 5 gallons in 4 plastic jugs of synthetic motor oil.

Furthermore, in the right side column there is a link to 2 other sellers. One of those is directly through Amazon.com and I chose that one for the added confidence and protection that Amazon offers, one being reimbursement for return shipping costs if the product received is not what was listed, ie, quantity.

You can also order this SAME product at the SAME price though Walmart.com and have it shipped to your local store location for pick-up or to your home/street address. Be very careful that you see that option before advancing to complete the order or otherwise it will ship to the default address shown in the last step and in order to change it you may have to cancel and start all over again.

Why would the price be so attractive? This is what I figure: Motor Oil and 'synthetic' in this case is a very very competitive market. Once a consumer chooses a brand and they are are happy with it, they tend to stick with that brand often for their entire lives. You need to bring the consumers' attention to your product to convert them to your product and the best way to get most consumers to look at and buy your product is to feature a LOW price.

If they like and trust your product they are likely to become lifetime customers and recommend it to others. This 'low price' tactic is known as , "Buying up market share" and I believe that Miles Lubricants SHOULD be very successful at doing this. Maybe they have more production capacity than they do customers to buy it and they *NEED* to create more loyal customers. After all it's not a big name multinational corporation with oil drilling rigs and refineries all over the world. THOSE are companies and name brands that they have to compete against in the market place.

Lastly, the company's facilities are located at Farmingdale, Oyster Bay, on Long Island, New York (a suburb of New York City, I think). I am located on the Pacific side of the USA, near Seattle. In contrast to the shipping times shown in the listings, UPS tracking says it the order was ready for UPS pick-up on the same day I ordered it, it was picked up later that day and it will arrive here 7 days after I placed the order. If you are located in the N.E. USA the shipping will likely be quicker.

I think that covers everything I have to say or know about this oil. Thanks for reading it!

 

[Fixnstuff]

I look forward to the post about your oil choices. What do you use in your IDI?

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

I forgot to mention, my first oil change after I bought the truck 3 years and 3 months ago, Feb. 2015 and after only 3,000 miles of driving since then, which is the oil I am going to drain now is Shell Rotella T-3 Triple Protection 15W40.
Based on tests I know it offers very good wear protection.

I found, as others have mentioned that it used more oil than I thought should be normal, especially when towing up hills and driving fast with a load and this engine runs REALLY GOOD with so little smoke (no noticeable smoke at start-up) that I was afraid something was wrong with the engine after I first bought it. Now I am happy with that!

I don't know where the oil goes but it's not appearing as smoke. Maybe there is an additive in Rotella that reduces visible exhaust / smoke.
It must be leaving the engine through blow-by back though the intake and I have a new CDR valve. I don't have any oil leaks as far as a single drop on the pavement where I park. Slightly messy along the lower side of the valve cover gasket on passenger side but I tightened up some loose bolts there a week ago.

Normally it's not bad, it's more when working the truck at high engine rpm. I have evidence indicating that it is, in my truck, a characteristic the Rotella oil I was using.

 

[Fixnstuff]

I was always told that if you didn't start with synthetic, then it's not worth converting to synthetic that had conventional run in it for a while. Something about how the synthetic oil won't bond with the engine parts if conventional was already in the crankcase. I don't know the validity of that assertion, just passing along when I heard. >snip

I've never read that anywhere or heard it but I can offer a possible reason or source to why that has been suggested in your conversations.

AMSOIL recommends using their engine flush product and I think that might be required for their warranty. I remember the information stating that this was to remove the WAXES that build up in engines that have used conventional oils that contain paraffins (waxes) as additives and I remember that most oils, especially Pennzoil
contained waxes that would cool and harden into black waxy crud inside valve covers and on valve train parts. While the engine warmed up they would melt back into the oil again. Those wax deposits were/are very noticeable when removing valve covers from engines with old oil in them that used oils with those waxes. A LOT of crud to scrape off and clean on the inside.

My ex- brother in-law and another sister's boyfriend used to build very high performance gas engines for cars that they raced at drag strips, until the hobby got too expensive for my brother-in-law.

They told me, (in the early 1980s) that they used CASTROL exclusively in all of their vehicles because it was the only oil at the time that did not use paraffins (waxes). They worked on a lot of engines so they probably didn't want to deal with cleaning engine parts coated wax crud.

It makes sense that if AMSOIL requires their engine flush for that purpose then that might be the source of where that incompatibility rumor started. FURTHERMORE, it makes sense that when that residual wax melts again and blends back in with the new synthetic oil it's going to interfere with the oil's ability to hold soot and other contaminates in suspension,- for example in my perception, the melted wax will collect soot, contaminates (and dirt in some of the engines I've taken apart) in the suspension and then settle out of suspension to solidify (as wax) as it cools down depositing those contaminates in the wax on all of the engine's internal surfaces as they cool down.

That is probably the main reason why it's always been recommended to warm up the engine before draining the oil. To get all of that wax crud holding dirt and carbon melted back into the oil so it will drain out with the oil.

I've almost always used CASTROL in my gas engines since that time, unless it's an old worn out junker that's about ready to find it's way to the wrecking yard. Then I'll use cheaper to cheap-est oil.

 

[genscripter]

I've never read that anywhere or heard it but I can offer a possible reason or source to why that has been suggested in your conversations.

AMSOIL recommends using their engine flush product and I think that might be required for their warranty. I remember the information stating that this was to remove the WAXES that build up in engines that have used conventional oils that contain paraffins (waxes) as additives and I remember that most oils, especially Pennzoil
contained waxes that would cool and harden into black waxy crud inside valve covers and on valve train parts. While the engine warmed up they would melt back into the oil again. Those wax deposits were/are very noticeable when removing valve covers from engines with old oil in them that used oils with those waxes. A LOT of crud to scrape off and clean on the inside.

My ex- brother in-law and another sister's boyfriend used to build very high performance gas engines for cars that they raced at drag strips, until the hobby got too expensive for my brother-in-law.

They told me, (in the early 1980s) that they used CASTROL exclusively in all of their vehicles because it was the only oil at the time that did not use paraffins (waxes). They worked on a lot of engines so they probably didn't want to deal with cleaning engine parts coated wax crud.

It makes sense that if AMSOIL requires their engine flush for that purpose then that might be the source of where that incompatibility rumor started. FURTHERMORE, it makes sense that when that residual wax melts again and blends back in with the new synthetic oil it's going to interfere with the oil's ability to hold soot and other contaminates in suspension,- for example in my perception, the melted wax will collect soot, contaminates (and dirt in some of the engines I've taken apart) in the suspension and then settle out of suspension to solidify (as wax) as it cools down depositing those contaminates in the wax on all of the engine's internal surfaces as they cool down.

That is probably the main reason why it's always been recommended to warm up the engine before draining the oil. To get all of that wax crud holding dirt and carbon melted back into the oil so it will drain out with the oil.

I've almost always used CASTROL in my gas engines since that time, unless it's an old worn out junker that's about ready to find it's way to the wrecking yard. Then I'll use cheaper to cheap-est oil.

Good info to know. Like I said, I just heard that rumor, and I'm just passing along what I was told. The only reason why I remember it, was because more than one person told me, and if things are indirectly corroborated, I tend to file them in long term memory storage. As for a source, I don't have anything. This type of stuff was word of mouth, which really isn't evidence in any sort of sense, but still worth discussing.