say goodbye to another e4od

[Simmonscoating]

Well i just killed another e4od tranny. I took my 94 idi and 15000 lb trailer from MD to VA. I started slipping about a mile before the campsite. I got to the camp site parked drank about 5 beers to ease the pain took the truck for a drive w/o the trailer no pump pressure at all. I went to a local pep boys got 2 gal of tranny fliud and a filter kit. when i droped the pan omg the oil was black as bad motor oil. There was so much crap in the filter looked like cluch material and a hand full of metal in the pan. A normal person would have stoped there not me I cleaned the pan and I put the new filter and fliud in the trans. I crossed my fingers started up the truck. I had my trans back well at least 3rd and overdrive had to store the trailer at the camp site but the trans got me home a 150 mile ride.

I am pulling at least 19000 lb truck and trailer combo will a stock trans handle that kind of weight? This is my 2nd trans i have a trans guage it never went over 190 degreese before i buy another stock trans any of you guys have any good ideas for me at this point.

 

[Exekiel69]

Check with the auto tranny guys and see if the probe for that gauge is at the right place, 190 doesn't burn ATF as far as I know. You can get a nice tranny cooler, search on My posts I started a thread about this and found some good options. Btw Welcome neighbor

 

[Simmonscoating]

Check with the auto tranny guys and see if the probe for that gauge is at the right place, 190 doesn't burn ATF as far as I know. You can get a nice tranny cooler, search on My posts I started a thread about this and found some good options. Btw Welcome neighbor

Thanks for the info. I got the trans temp prob in the hot line back to the cooler the line coming out of the front of the trans. I heard this is the best place to put it the trans fluid is the hottest at that point. I got a big trans cooler on the tranny i tryed this after the first melt down.

I do have the truck turned up and a water **** kit on it i can pull hills in overdrive at 65 mph. Maybe im at the thresh hold of these things.

I will check out your posts thanks jeff

 

[sootman73]

well are you pulling in overdrive? you cannot pull loads in overdrive. guaranteed to kill the trans! most people put the temp sensor in the diagnostic port on the drivers side of the trans right above the pan in front of the shifter arm. are you sure you have it in the right line?

 

[oldmisterbill]

Ben hope not to offend you -but I towed heavy and never locked out overdrive (well never say never) -ok as a rule I used overdrive when ever speed & rpms permitted it. I did however have a manual torque convertor lockup.I feel the lockup saves fuel and fights heat & wear. I had my temp sender in the test port also,I thought about moving it but I had run it there for a long time and was used to whet I had for readings. My trans is a standard Jasper rebuild -no shift kits or modified computors. I did however keep the throttlr sensor adjusted very regularly. I used 2 BIG! coolers plumbed in parralell.I don't believe you will ever cool the E40D too much. My loads were more then equal to Simmons and were daily for a few years.I think I had over 225,000 miles on my trans (it stillis working fine) -I think driving it is important - let off a littlt while it shifts so engegement is smmoth.To me the black in your oil says Burnt oil.Did it smell "Burnt?
Who did the trans overhaul? One thing I feel for sure is whoever rebuilds these units have to know what they're doing! I have heard of too many rebuilds failing -done in small shops or ford units.I have no idea why.
All I realy know is I towed thousands of miles weekly on a rebuilt that I changed oil in regulary -and drove carefully,kept it cool and made sure it had firm (not hard)shifts.I think they are an awsome transmission.I wanted to go to a stick back then for security but couldn't scrape up the $$ .Today my left hip is gone and a stick is out of the question for me,plus I hardly use the old girl but it will always be an auto till i'm done with it.

Oh Heath and others that have said I need to run it more. I used it saturday (as a work truck even) aren't I a good boy? Oh yes I & took 2 of my grandchildern to supervise loading operations (ages 3 & 4,girl & boy) They love to go in Paw - Paws truck.We made a full day of it.

 

[Simmonscoating]

well are you pulling in overdrive? you cannot pull loads in overdrive. guaranteed to kill the trans! most people put the temp sensor in the diagnostic port on the drivers side of the trans right above the pan in front of the shifter arm. are you sure you have it in the right line?

I know its in the right side for sure. The oil might not have been burned might have just been all the clutch fibers in the oil. the oil did not have a bad smell to it just black as hell.

I only pull overdrive on flat ground. i take od off when i hit the hills. to many rpms at 60 mph in 3rd somewhere around 2500 sounds like the motor is screeming. Mybe i could look into changing the gears .

 

[Simmonscoating]

Ben hope not to offend you -but I towed heavy and never locked out overdrive (well never say never) -ok as a rul I used overdrive when ever speed & rpms permitted it. I did however have a manual torque convertor lockup.I feel the lockup saves fuel and fights heat & wear. I had my temp sender in the test port also,I thought about moving it but I had run it there for a long time and was used to whet I had foe readings. My trans is a standard Jasper rebuild -no shift kits or modified computors. I did however keep the throttlr sensor adjusted very regularly. I used 2 coolers plumbed in parralell.I don't believe you will ever cool the E40D too much. My loads were more then equal to Simmons and were daily for a few years.I think I had over 225,000 miles on my trans (it stillis working fine) -I think driving it is important - let off a littlt while it shifts so engegement is smmoth.To me the black in your oil says Burnt oil.Did it smell "Burnt?
Who did the trans overhaul? One thing I feel for sure is whoever rebuilds these units have to know what they're doing! I have heard of too many rebuilds failing -done in small shops or ford units.I have no idea why.
All I realy know is I towed thousands of miles weekly on a rebuilt that I changed oil in regulary -and drove carefully,kep cool and made sure it had firm (not hard)shifts.I think they are an awsome transmission.I waanted to go to a stick back then for security but couldn't scrape up the $$ .Today my left hip is gone and a stick is out of the question for me,plus I hardly use the old girl but it will always be an auto till i'm done with it.

Oh Heath and others that have said I need to run it more. I used it saturday (as a work truck even) aren't I a good boy? Oh yes I & took 2 of my grandchildern to supervise loading operations (ages 3 & 4,girl & boy) They love to go in Paw - Paws truck.We made a full day of it.

I HAD GLEN BURNIE TRANSMISSION rebuild it when i got it back the truck was not shiftin right so I took it back till they got it right. I starting to think the rebuid was a bad one trust me im very easy on the trans when pulling that kind of weight. No reason for the cluches to self destruct!!!! I watch my temps egts Water temps when pulling heavy. when pulling big hills i try to keep from shifting as much as possible. I like the idea of two tranny coolers might explore that one...

 

[oldmisterbill]

till they got it right. or till they got it right ????
That is the question.

 

[OLDBULL8]

Simmonscoating :

Well i just killed another e4od tranny

Where you have your temp sensor tells you nothing: Reason-When you blew the 1st tranny, the aux cooler and radiator could be partially plugged, if it is you are not getting the volume of oil back to the tranny, all the oil coming back is only to cool and lubricate. Put the sensor in the test port.
Edit: Seen where you put a new aux cooler on after the 1st one, still the radiator could be partially plugged if it was not flushed really good.

There was so much crap in the filter looked like cluch material and a hand full of metal in the pan.

You can be sure that the aux cooler is *****. It's almost impossible to get all the crap out it and also the cooler in the radiator. When the trans. filter started to plug, it was nothing but death to the clutches.

when i droped the pan omg the oil was black as bad motor oil.

You can rest assure the oil is burnt. Makes no difference now the tranny is shot.

19,000# is under the GVWR of your truck. I've pulled that much and more several times,up mountains in Cali,Alaska,Utah, and Canada with no problems with my "90" and "99" E4OD .

I only pull overdrive on flat ground. i take od off when i hit the hills. to many rpms at 60 mph in 3rd somewhere around 2500 sounds like the motor is screeming. Mybe i could look into changing the gears .

That's not to many RPM's in 3rd, about right for a 4:10 rear.
When you get the new/rebuilt tranny, make sure the radiator cooler is flushed, and a new aux cooler installed.

 

[oldmisterbill]

Simmonscoating :

Where you have your temp sensor tells you nothing: Reason-When you blew the 1st tranny, the aux cooler and radiator could be partially plugged, if it is you are not getting the volume of oil back to the tranny, all the oil coming back is only to cool and lubricate. Put the sensor in the test port.
Edit: Seen where you put a new aux cooler on after the 1st one, still the radiator could be partially plugged if it was not flushed really good.


You can be sure that the aux cooler is *****. It's almost impossible to get all the crap out it and also the cooler in the radiator. When the trans. filter started to plug, it was nothing but death to the clutches.


You can rest assure the oil is burnt. Makes no difference now the tranny is shot.

19,000# is under the GVWR of your truck. I've pulled that much and more several times,up mountains in Cali,Alaska,Utah, and Canada with no problems with my "90" and "99" E4OD .



That's not to many RPM's in 3rd, about right for a 4:10 rear.
When you get the new/rebuilt tranny, make sure the radiator cooler is flushed, and a new aux cooler installed.

X2 except I would bypass the radiator cooler - never ran through mine -never had a problem. I did let it run a bit when it was below zero in newengland.A couple times I left as soon as I had good oil pressure fot a minute,but drove easy till the trans had time to warm up.

 

[OLDBULL8]

oldmisterbill has it right about installing the aux coolers in parallel, never in series because of the flow resistance in series, volume volume is what you want back to the tranny. There is not that much pressure in the line going to the cooler's, the oil goes thru an orifice at the tranny, which reduces the pressure. Make sure none of the rubber hose are kinked. Overfilling is certain death, causes the oil to aerate and/or foam, the pump cannot pump air. Always check level when hot engine running in neutral or park.

Trans. capacity
4X2 = 15.5 Qts.
4X4 = 16 Qts.

 

[LCAM-01XA]

well are you pulling in overdrive? you cannot pull loads in overdrive. guaranteed to kill the trans!

Why do you think so? It is not an AOD or 700R4 we're talking about, the E4OD was designed to tow in OD, actually all the power transmitted through it goes through the OD gearset regardless of which gear you're in, and the OD gearset is the strongest (and least likely to self-destruct) one in the trans... If you lug the transmission by running it in high gear with the engine speed too low then I could see the lack of sufficient line pressure leading to toasted clutches, but with 4.10 rear gears even 500 mph gives you nearly 2000 rpms which should be more than enough to keep things from slipping.

 

[sootman73]

overdrive makes a lot more heat is why i was saying it. i've killed two E4OD's in the last year. overdrive can be used if you have lots of cooling of the fluid.

OP i think your gauge is off as the clutch fibers dont seperate at 190 degree fluid. its if they go to 260-300 then you have very very little time. run at 2500 rpm thats nothing for these motors. just get used to the sound and you'll be fine. i've been saying this a lot lately it seems but wind the motor out. you aren't going to kill it if you watch your temps.

i will not tow in overdrive but i didn't know that he had 4:10 gears when i posted. i have 3:55's and will never try towing heavy in OD again. its not worth the risk. i'll go slower and be in third and not worry. plus the fan can be spining faster to move more air...

 

[snicklas]

I do agree with Bill and Ivan about towing in overdrive. I towed using OD when the conditions warrrented it. I have done both, but a default, of I can not tow in overdrive has not been a rule for me. I had a Durango that I towed with, and I could use OD on flat ground, normally running 50-55. If I were on the Interstate and had a lot of hills, I had it in OD lockout.

Now, with the Ex and the Torqshift (5r110) transmission, there is no OD Lockout. It has a Tow/Haul Mode for the transmission and it uses all forward gears for towing. It is not uncommon for me to be running in 5th gear on the road, if it does decide the I need to run in 4th it seems strange, because things just don't sound right.

I believe the "You can not tow in overdrive" came about from people using OD to tow, but not shifting into 3rd (OD Lockout) when the transmission started hunting between 3rd and 4th. Which stands true anytime the trans is hunting, you should lockout OD even if empty. This creates a great deal of heat, which is what caused the transmission damage. So most manufactures to reduce their warrenty claims, they started the you can not tow in OD "rule".

 

[david85]

My guess here is there were underlying issues from day one if he had to go back to the rebuilder early in the life of the rebuild. Burned oil but no overheating on the guage tells me that something was slipping internally. Its actually possible to have a slipping clutch and not overheat the transmission. Oil will burn at the location of the fault but you will only have a hot spot right there. Overall temperature of the transmission may not be significantly higher, but you will be accumulating burnt fluid inside. I've done it when I installed a sprag backwards (live and learn). Stuck in 2nd gear and speeds up to 40 MPH would still not pass 175F as measured at the valve body inside the transmission. I didn't drive mine long enough to burn the fluid to that degree, but inspection of the overdrive clutch pack proved that it was indeed slipping even though the transmission did not over heat.

Restricted cooler could also be the problem however, he has the temperature probe right at the outlet of the transmission. High flow or not, that is as close as you can get to the hottest part of the transmission - the torque converter.

Metal parts in the pan indicates a hard part failure so its not just a case of burned clutches anymore. The only way to know for sure what went wrong is to perform a post mortem on the transmission.

If the transmission does prove to be rebuildable, I would strongly advise replacing the whole valve body and front pump with new or reconditioned parts. Metal filings like that will come back to haunt you eventually and indeed something like that could easily caus this particular failure. It would only be a matter of time if something sharp is allowed to circulate inside the valve body. All it takes is one valve to get scratched bad enough to cause all sorts of hell to break loose in there.

As for towing in overdrive. The only difference is in overdrive the input shaft speed is lower and therefore the pump flow is also lower. Its not the transmission is making more heat, its the cooling capacity is reduced slightly because of lower fluid flow. Really high screaming RPMs can generate plenty of heat too but you also have the higher pump RPM to compensate. My rule is to tow by RPMs but also be careful not to load them too much with the converter unlocked below stall speed.