Pick up Laws???

[NTOLERANCE]

if you're hauling more than 275gallons of used motor oil, you fall under DOT rules for all 50 states.
stay under that and you're good. keep it out of sight and you're even better
be smart. have a large sack of asorbent in the truck with broom, shovel and bucket.
if you look and act prepared to handle whatever mess you make, they tend to let you go without playing 20 questions.

Keeping a low profile will help, especially if, like me, youre running a 110 gallon L shaped bed tank.

As soon as that tank is in the bed, your on the radar. Whats in the tank? Off road diesel? Iced tea? Or waste oil? The DOT around me will be looking at you harder with the exposed tank. Add farm plates to your truck and you may as well say "pull me over and dip my tank!"
I'm thinking of painting my tank a dark color to lower the visibility.

 

[leswhitt]

DOT Regs require HazMat placards on loads of oil more then 1001 gallons.

We don't need a license to pick up, but the garage that is disposing the oil has to prove it was disposed of properly. Not that I care

I saw the same thing mentioned on the net but no proof of where it applies to private rigs. Would you mind citing your source?

 

[towcat]

here's what I found for rules governing licensing a "tank" vehicle......Ca dmv.

[h=3]Section 8: Tank Vehicles[/h]
This section is for drivers who drive tank vehicles
This section has information needed to pass the CDL knowledge test for driving a tank vehicle. You should also study Sections 2, 5, and 6. A tank vehicle is used to carry any liquids or gaseous materials in tanks.
Before loading, unloading, or driving a tank vehicle, inspect the vehicle. Make sure that the vehicle is safe to carry the liquid or gaseous material and is safe to drive.
Tank Endorsement is needed.

---

[h=4]Tank Vehicle Defined[/h] A tank vehicle includes any commercial vehicle which has fixed tanks (including collapsible containers, also called "bladder bags") or that carry portable tanks of 1,000 gallons or more capacity (CVC §15210(k)). Portable tanks are bulk containers which are not permanently attached to a vehicle. The product is loaded or unloaded while the portable tanks are off the vehicle, they are then loaded on a vehicle for transportation.
A tank vehicle also includes any fixed tank in excess of 119 gallons mounted on any vehicle or vehicle combination which requires a CDL or placards. (Example, a pickup transporting a 120 gallon fixed tank containing diesel requires a commercial Class C with Tank/HazMat endorsements. However, no CDL is needed for a 25,999 GVWR 2-axle truck with a 3000 gallon water tank pulling a trailer less than 10,000 lbs. GVWR.)

 

[towcat]

here's the definitions for title 49 CFR rules on used motor oil transporters.

Text

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Title 40: Protection of Environment

CHAPTER I: ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY (CONTINUED)

SUBCHAPTER I: SOLID WASTES (CONTINUED)

PART 279: STANDARDS FOR THE MANAGEMENT OF USED OIL

Subpart E: Standards for Used Oil Transporter and Transfer Facilities

279.40 - Applicability.

(a) General. Except as provided in paragraphs (a)(1) through (a)(4) of this section, this subpart applies to all used oil transporters. Used oil transporters are persons who transport used oil, persons who collect used oil from more than one generator and transport the collected oil, and owners and operators of used oil transfer facilities.

(1) This subpart does not apply to on-site transportation.

(2) This subpart does not apply to generators who transport shipments of used oil totalling 55 gallons or less from the generator to a used oil collection center as specified in ? 279.24(a).

(3) This subpart does not apply to generators who transport shipments of used oil totalling 55 gallons or less from the generator to a used oil aggregation point owned or operated by the same generator as specified in ? 279.24(b).

(4) This subpart does not apply to transportation of used oil from household do-it-yourselfers to a regulated used oil generator, collection center, aggregation point, processor/re-refiner, or burner subject to the requirements of this part. Except as provided in paragraphs (a)(1) through (a)(3) of this section, this subpart does, however, apply to transportation of collected household do-it-yourselfer used oil from regulated used oil generators, collection centers, aggregation points, or other facilities where household do-it-yourselfer used oil is collected.

(b) Imports and exports. Transporters who import used oil from abroad or export used oil outside of the United States are subject to the requirements of this subpart from the time the used oil enters and until the time it exits the United States.

(c) Trucks used to transport hazardous waste. Unless trucks previously used to transport hazardous waste are emptied as described in ? 261.7 of this chapter prior to transporting used oil, the used oil is considered to have been mixed with the hazardous waste and must be managed as hazardous waste unless, under the provisions of ? 279.10(b), the hazardous waste/used oil mixture is determined not to be hazardous waste.

(d) Other applicable provisions. Used oil transporters who conduct the following activities are also subject to other applicable provisions of this part as indicated in paragraphs (d)(1) through (5) of this section:

(1) Transporters who generate used oil must also comply with subpart C of this part;

(2) Transporters who process or re-refine used oil, except as provided in ? 279.41, must also comply with subpart F of this part;

(3) Transporters who burn off-specification used oil for energy recovery must also comply with subpart G of this part;

(4) Transporters who direct shipments of off-specification used oil from their facility to a used oil burner or first claim that used oil that is to be burned for energy recovery meets the used oil fuel specifications set forth in ? 279.11 must also comply with subpart H of this part; and

(5) Transporters who dispose of used oil, including the use of used oil as a dust suppressant, must also comply with subpart I of this part.

[57 FR 41612, Sept. 10, 1992, as amended at 58 FR 26425, May 3, 1993]

 

[towcat]

best suggestion I have is to read and understand the whole regulation and definitions. it's true everything requires a lawyer to interpret but if you approach this from the "most conservative" viewpoint, you'll run into less trouble.

 

[leswhitt]

here's the definitions for title 49 CFR rules on used motor oil transporters.

Text

---

Title 40: Protection of Environment

CHAPTER I: ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY (CONTINUED)

SUBCHAPTER I: SOLID WASTES (CONTINUED)

PART 279: STANDARDS FOR THE MANAGEMENT OF USED OIL

Subpart E: Standards for Used Oil Transporter and Transfer Facilities

279.40 - Applicability.

(a) General. Except as provided in paragraphs (a)(1) through (a)(4) of this section, this subpart applies to all used oil transporters. Used oil transporters are persons who transport used oil, persons who collect used oil from more than one generator and transport the collected oil, and owners and operators of used oil transfer facilities.

(4) This subpart does not apply to transportation of used oil from household do-it-yourselfers to a regulated used oil generator, collection center, aggregation point, processor/re-refiner, or burner subject to the requirements of this part. Except as provided in paragraphs (a)(1) through (a)(3) of this section, this subpart does, however, apply to transportation of collected household do-it-yourselfer used oil from regulated used oil generators, collection centers, aggregation points, or other facilities where household do-it-yourselfer used oil is collected.

Based on A (4), we're exempt from this section of rules. Again, from what I've seen/read/heard, the private user does not fall under any DOT rules as far as how much we can carry. I think placards are both a good and bad idea; Good because it identifies our load as non-hazardous and Bad because placards usually infer a commercial truck and not private. When I use placards in the future, I will put them on the tote and then cover the entire tote with a tarp, moving blanket, etc.

Even though I'm not breaking any laws, I think safe practice for when I'm transporting large quantities of oil is to A) Use an enclosed trailer when possible B) If not using an enclosed trailer, placard the tote and then individually wrap tarps around each tote so that it looks like a big, blue, bundle C) Use overkill when securing the load so that there's no question it'll pass a safety inspection and D) Make sure my trailer is in perfect working order and has spill management materials on board.

 

[towcat]

Based on A (4), we're exempt from this section of rules. Again, from what I've seen/read/heard, the private user does not fall under any DOT rules as far as how much we can carry. I think placards are both a good and bad idea; Good because it identifies our load as non-hazardous and Bad because placards usually infer a commercial truck and not private. When I use placards in the future, I will put them on the tote and then cover the entire tote with a tarp, moving blanket, etc.

Even though I'm not breaking any laws, I think safe practice for when I'm transporting large quantities of oil is to A) Use an enclosed trailer when possible B) If not using an enclosed trailer, placard the tote and then individually wrap tarps around each tote so that it looks like a big, blue, bundle C) Use overkill when securing the load so that there's no question it'll pass a safety inspection and D) Make sure my trailer is in perfect working order and has spill management materials on board.

household DIY oil changers generally don't exceed five gallons at a time.
a 1000 gallon cap tote certainly falls under that rule. I thought at one time I was ok with a 275 gallon tote. from what I read yesterday, it's not so. I do carry equipment to load/ offload the oil from the tote, so I fall under tanker laws. For those wondering why the 275 gallon number? if you do the muliplier of 7lbs to the gallon, it comes out to just under 2000 lbs so I am just at my gross with my truck. if I am to do a conservative application, then max legal for hauling a combustible such as oil would be 119 gallons as defined in the first post by the Cal DMV on the requirements for a tanker endorsement on your DL.

 

[leswhitt]

household DIY oil changers generally don't exceed five gallons at a time.
a 1000 gallon cap tote certainly falls under that rule. I thought at one time I was ok with a 275 gallon tote. from what I read yesterday, it's not so. I do carry equipment to load/ offload the oil from the tote, so I fall under tanker laws. For those wondering why the 275 gallon number? if you do the muliplier of 7lbs to the gallon, it comes out to just under 2000 lbs so I am just at my gross with my truck. if I am to do a conservative application, then max legal for hauling a combustible such as oil would be 119 gallons as defined in the first post by the Cal DMV on the requirements for a tanker endorsement on your DL.

I'll have to respectfully disagree with you Towcat, I didn't read/interpret the law to backup what you're saying.

1) Between my RV, Excursion, and Honda Odyssey, I'm always over 5 gallons whenever I do oil changes. If I do all the oil changes on my farm on the same day, I'm into the 50-60 gallon range. Nowhere in the regs does it give the 5 gallon arbitrary limit for what is considered DIY use. As for a 275 gallon tote, the regs don't give those limits for a DIY user either.

2) With the CA tanker rules, I didn't see where carrying equipment to load/unload oil automatically makes you a tanker.

3) A private pickup transporting a 275 gallon portable tank containing diesel does not require a CDL or Placards. Whether or not your vehicle has the legal carrying capacity is another matter. A private pickup transporting a 275 gallon portable tank in the bed and a trailer with another 2,000 gallons on a trailer, is not considered a tanker.

Under CA law, I wonder how many truckers have been ticketed for carrying over 120 gallons of diesel (many have twin 150 gal tanks) and not having placards? If the tank is plumbed into the vehicle system, my thought is that there's a sublaw such as "diminished capacity" that keeps the vehicle from being classified as a tanker...

 

[towcat]

I'll have to respectfully disagree with you Towcat, I didn't read/interpret the law to backup what you're saying.

1) Between my RV, Excursion, and Honda Odyssey, I'm always over 5 gallons whenever I do oil changes. If I do all the oil changes on my farm on the same day, I'm into the 50-60 gallon range. Nowhere in the regs does it give the 5 gallon arbitrary limit for what is considered DIY use. As for a 275 gallon tote, the regs don't give those limits for a DIY user either.

2) With the CA tanker rules, I didn't see where carrying equipment to load/unload oil automatically makes you a tanker.

3) A private pickup transporting a 275 gallon portable tank containing diesel does not require a CDL or Placards. Whether or not your vehicle has the legal carrying capacity is another matter. A private pickup transporting a 275 gallon portable tank in the bed and a trailer with another 2,000 gallons on a trailer, is not considered a tanker.

Under CA law, I wonder how many truckers have been ticketed for carrying over 120 gallons of diesel (many have twin 150 gal tanks) and not having placards? If the tank is plumbed into the vehicle system, my thought is that there's a sublaw such as "diminished capacity" that keeps the vehicle from being classified as a tanker...

re-read post #18. then comment.

 

[leswhitt]

re-read post #18. then comment.

Post #18 is what my comments were based on.

 

[towcat]

I'll have to respectfully disagree with you Towcat, I didn't read/interpret the law to backup what you're saying.
for starters, I have a law and business background. I suggested for anybody who reads this to interpret conservatively not liberally and you will be in good shape.
1) Between my RV, Excursion, and Honda Odyssey, I'm always over 5 gallons whenever I do oil changes. If I do all the oil changes on my farm on the same day, I'm into the 50-60 gallon range. Nowhere in the regs does it give the 5 gallon arbitrary limit for what is considered DIY use. As for a 275 gallon tote, the regs don't give those limits for a DIY user either.
for tax purposes, are you listing what you do on the farm as income or tax-exempt purposes? if so, you are a business and subject to the rules of businesses. technically, you are not allowed to use public waste oil collection sites due to 1) the waste oil you generate is from a income earning endeavor 2) most public waste oil collection facilities are using 55 gallon barrels as a collection point and no larger due to current fire code governing how much material can be stored on-site. your RV, ex, honda would qualify as a DIY generator. Once again, hazmat and fire code restricts transport of oil to be done via a non-sparking, screw top container not to exceed five gallons.

2) With the CA tanker rules, I didn't see where carrying equipment to load/unload oil automatically makes you a tanker.
read the following item "Portable tanks are bulk containers which are not permanently attached to a vehicle. The product is loaded or unloaded while the portable tanks are off the vehicle, they are then loaded on a vehicle for transportation. " that's pretty clear to me that no liquid transfer equipment is on the vehicle.

3) A private pickup transporting a 275 gallon portable tank containing diesel does not require a CDL or Placards. Whether or not your vehicle has the legal carrying capacity is another matter. A private pickup transporting a 275 gallon portable tank in the bed and a trailer with another 2,000 gallons on a trailer, is not considered a tanker. if you are using a portable tank as described by CA DMV, you then are legal. If you have load/offload equipment for that portable tank, you then are in violation.

Under CA law, I wonder how many truckers have been ticketed for carrying over 120 gallons of diesel (many have twin 150 gal tanks) and not having placards? If the tank is plumbed into the vehicle system, my thought is that there's a sublaw such as "diminished capacity" that keeps the vehicle from being classified as a tanker...
this is a poor argument. there's no restriction on the amount of fuel a rig can carry for the means of motive power. the only incentive for rigs to keep their capacity down is one) the cost for refeuling, two) the hazmat response when the fuel tank is ripped open. once again if there is liuid transfer equipment outside of a feul swithching valve and fuel pump for fuel tank transfer, big rig is not a tanker.

Let me also clarify this. Due to lobbying by repair businesses in the past, the state of California must provide a means for the HOME DO IT YOURSELF oil changer to dispose of their own oil legally. businesses who sell oil are compelled by the state to set up collection points if they meet fire code to do so. in order to shield the DIY from the red tape of transport of used motor oil, they are exempt unless they are generating it from a business entity.
hope this helps.

 

[leswhitt]

There was quite a bit going on in the last post, hopefully I can address all your points adequately.

1)"for starters, I have a law and business background. I suggested for anybody who reads this to interpret conservatively not liberally and you will be in good shape." We all have our credentials, and I too have a law background. The writing of the law is quite clear and in this case, the code that we're discussing is to be taken logically. My stance from posting in this thread is that Oilburner members who engage in WMO collection/use will have clear laws that protect them, and not just internet hearsay or one person's (whether yours or mine) conservative/agressive interpretation.

2)"for tax purposes, are you listing what you do on the farm as income or tax-exempt purposes? if so, you are a business and subject to the rules of businesses. technically, you are not allowed to use public waste oil collection sites due to 1) the waste oil you generate is from a income earning endeavor 2) most public waste oil collection facilities are using 55 gallon barrels as a collection point and no larger due to current fire code governing how much material can be stored on-site. your RV, ex, honda would qualify as a DIY generator. Once again, hazmat and fire code restricts transport of oil to be done via a non-sparking, screw top container not to exceed five gallons." I am not familiar with California oil disposal rules/regs since I do not reside in CA. However, in NC, I am fully within the law to use public waste oil collection sites, and because the State makes a profit from this oil, most business that have fleet vehicles are encouraged to utilize public waste oil collection sites rather than private sites. These public sites (the ones that I've used in the past) do not use 55 gallon barrels but instead 400+ gallon totes. Before I started using my own oil for fuel purposes, the county would actually offer to come out to the rural areas and pick up waste oil from homes, businesses, farms, etc. As for Hazmat and Fire codes, this sounds like it is California specific because I have purchased oil in several states from normal retail stores in 55 gallon drums.

3)"Portable tanks are bulk containers which are not permanently attached to a vehicle. The product is loaded or unloaded while the portable tanks are off the vehicle, they are then loaded on a vehicle for transportation." The presence of pumps, hoses, etc., that are separate from a portable tank, do not change the definition of a portable tank and do not automatically make a vehicle a tanker. As far as California/DOT/etc. are concerned, the pump equipment is irrelevant since it could easily be argued that once the DIY get's to the site, he/she will offload their portable tank, use the pump equipment to fill it, and load it back onto the vehicle. I would even argue that loading the tank while it is still on the vehicle wouldn't change the definition of a portable tank, I just can't see a judge ruling that a portable tank becomes instantly fixed as soon as something is poured into it while it's still on the vehicle.

4)"if you are using a portable tank as described by CA DMV, you then are legal. If you have load/offload equipment for that portable tank, you then are in violation." Again, I disagree. The mere presence of pump equipment does not consitute a violation or else it would be expressely stated in the law. Even then, it would be impossible to prosecute the intent of someone or change the lawful definition of a portable tank merely because they had a tote and a separate barrel/transfer pump.

5)"Let me also clarify this. Due to lobbying by repair businesses in the past, the state of California must provide a means for the HOME DO IT YOURSELF oil changer to dispose of their own oil legally. businesses who sell oil are compelled by the state to set up collection points if they meet fire code to do so." This just isn't CA, it's nearly impossible to find a place in the US that doesn't have a business that collects used oil. That's what makes it harder for folks like myself that want to use it as fuel, there's always an Advance or Autozone that'll willingly accept it out of the "goodness" of their hearts, and then they turn around and sell it and make a profit.

6)"in order to shield the DIY from the red tape of transport of used motor oil, they are exempt unless they are generating it from a business entity. hope this helps." So would you agree with me that the DIY guy using portable tanks and under the CDL vehicle weight limit, i.e. 25,999 GVWR 2-axle truck with a 2000 gallon oil tank pulling a trailer less than 10,000 lbs. GVWR, is good to go?

 

[m67tang]

Looks like the basics are- carry a smaller quantity placed discreetly not to attract attention. I think a truck cap might go a long way to avoid random questions or being noticed.

 

[m67tang]

For you all that are burning WMO... do you find calling small mechanic / tranny shops to be a good way to set up a pick up route? if not what else works to get a steady supply?

Also, is it free when you get a source, or are you paying a price for the right to haul it off?

I am currently seeing, in my area, people advertising to pay for used WVO to burn in veggie cars. Right now I see ads for $1 per gallon, so the supply must be quite low. It used to be FREE!

 

[towcat]

There was quite a bit going on in the last post, hopefully I can address all your points adequately.

1)"for starters, I have a law and business background. I suggested for anybody who reads this to interpret conservatively not liberally and you will be in good shape." We all have our credentials, and I too have a law background. The writing of the law is quite clear and in this case, the code that we're discussing is to be taken logically. My stance from posting in this thread is that Oilburner members who engage in WMO collection/use will have clear laws that protect them, and not just internet hearsay or one person's (whether yours or mine) conservative/agressive interpretation.

2)"for tax purposes, are you listing what you do on the farm as income or tax-exempt purposes? if so, you are a business and subject to the rules of businesses. technically, you are not allowed to use public waste oil collection sites due to 1) the waste oil you generate is from a income earning endeavor 2) most public waste oil collection facilities are using 55 gallon barrels as a collection point and no larger due to current fire code governing how much material can be stored on-site. your RV, ex, honda would qualify as a DIY generator. Once again, hazmat and fire code restricts transport of oil to be done via a non-sparking, screw top container not to exceed five gallons." I am not familiar with California oil disposal rules/regs since I do not reside in CA. However, in NC, I am fully within the law to use public waste oil collection sites, and because the State makes a profit from this oil, most business that have fleet vehicles are encouraged to utilize public waste oil collection sites rather than private sites. These public sites (the ones that I've used in the past) do not use 55 gallon barrels but instead 400+ gallon totes. Before I started using my own oil for fuel purposes, the county would actually offer to come out to the rural areas and pick up waste oil from homes, businesses, farms, etc. As for Hazmat and Fire codes, this sounds like it is California specific because I have purchased oil in several states from normal retail stores in 55 gallon drums.

3)"Portable tanks are bulk containers which are not permanently attached to a vehicle. The product is loaded or unloaded while the portable tanks are off the vehicle, they are then loaded on a vehicle for transportation." The presence of pumps, hoses, etc., that are separate from a portable tank, do not change the definition of a portable tank and do not automatically make a vehicle a tanker. As far as California/DOT/etc. are concerned, the pump equipment is irrelevant since it could easily be argued that once the DIY get's to the site, he/she will offload their portable tank, use the pump equipment to fill it, and load it back onto the vehicle. I would even argue that loading the tank while it is still on the vehicle wouldn't change the definition of a portable tank, I just can't see a judge ruling that a portable tank becomes instantly fixed as soon as something is poured into it while it's still on the vehicle.

4)"if you are using a portable tank as described by CA DMV, you then are legal. If you have load/offload equipment for that portable tank, you then are in violation." Again, I disagree. The mere presence of pump equipment does not consitute a violation or else it would be expressely stated in the law. Even then, it would be impossible to prosecute the intent of someone or change the lawful definition of a portable tank merely because they had a tote and a separate barrel/transfer pump.

5)"Let me also clarify this. Due to lobbying by repair businesses in the past, the state of California must provide a means for the HOME DO IT YOURSELF oil changer to dispose of their own oil legally. businesses who sell oil are compelled by the state to set up collection points if they meet fire code to do so." This just isn't CA, it's nearly impossible to find a place in the US that doesn't have a business that collects used oil. That's what makes it harder for folks like myself that want to use it as fuel, there's always an Advance or Autozone that'll willingly accept it out of the "goodness" of their hearts, and then they turn around and sell it and make a profit.

6)"in order to shield the DIY from the red tape of transport of used motor oil, they are exempt unless they are generating it from a business entity. hope this helps." So would you agree with me that the DIY guy using portable tanks and under the CDL vehicle weight limit, i.e. 25,999 GVWR 2-axle truck with a 2000 gallon oil tank pulling a trailer less than 10,000 lbs. GVWR, is good to go?

we can agree on one thing. both of us know our local and federal laws pertaining to transport of this stuff. my assertion to anyone looking to break the law is best to understand what you're breaking so you know how for to push it.