Oil Level

[LCAM-01XA]

Maybe it doesn't make too much of a difference, but I think that drilling the hole with some oil still in the pan would help to suspend any debris that do escape the grease, and wash them out the drain hole when you change the oil.

I had the same idea as well - drain some oil, cut hole hole, drain the rest of the oil, weld nut on, install sensor, refill with oil slowly to test new sensor, top it off and go. Spraying some carb cleaner thru the 1" hole before draining oil and welding nut may not be a bad thing as well, the plastic straws curve well and should be able to wash off any debris that stick to walls of pan right below hole.

 

[antiqueford]

I'd want the sensor level with the "add 2qts" line on the dipstick. How far inside the pan does the OEM sensor extend? Also, what's the thread size approximately (or exactly, if you happen to know off the top of your head).

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Thread appears to be M20x1.5 according to my calipers and gauges. IIRC Sensor protrudes about 2" inward, tho I can't tell if that's measured from pan wall or from nut wall (I have no sensor, just the nut for it). Nut itself is about 7/16" thick and is typically welded on inside of pan. I'd say worst case scenario you're looking at the sensor sticking out 2.5" in from the pan wall. This is if nut is welded on inside like factory. If you weld it on the outside it will pull the sensor out some. Probably looking at about 1.5" sensor stickout inside the pan then. Give or take.

How far below block/pan rails is the "add 2qts" mark, do we know that?

 

[antiqueford]

As posted earlier. Full is 4 5/8" from the pan rail. Looks like exactly 1/2" per quart on the dipstick (full to add 2qt is exactly an inch). The sump does get smaller towards the bottom though so that makes it less accurate.

If we can get a measurement from the transmission mount surface to a main bearing, could a guy center the sensor with the main bearing cap and miss the crank throws/counterweights? Or at 5 5/8" are we already below any interference?

 

[jaluhn83]

Before ya'll get too into this, make sure that the sensor works the way you think cause I'm pretty sure it's not that simple...... most oil level sensor I've seen are capacitance type, meaning you need an external chip to do the logic routine and operate a relay. The sensor on it's own is useless. It's also going to be somewhat sensitive to gunk, wear, and variation in oil type. Not saying it wouldn't work, but there's more than meets the eye.

This why I want to use a simple float switch.

The low coolant light was an ISSPRO kit, let me see if I can find the info..... had to solder a bung into the radiator top tank and do some wiring but it works well. Okay, found it - ISSPRO 4290. Quite expensive though - $161 was the cheapest I saw in 30 seconds of looking. I feel like I got mine for under $100 though.... not sure if the price went up or what.

I'm also looking at installing low oil level sensors for the trans, t-case and rear but haven't figured out exactly how yet. Long range plan is also to setup oil temp gauges and warnings for those 3 as well.... I plan to have a master caution and then a small board of various warning lights. Looking at a oil cooler for the trans and engine oil too down the road.

I think you're going to work harder trying to put a bung on the pan in the truck than just biting the bullet and pulling the pan......

 

[jaluhn83]

Well below any interference. The top of the running oil level is always going to be below the running gear as designed - having it dip into the oil would cause serious arreation problems and suck power.

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Measure how deep the pan is under the 2nd main, that should be a good estimate as to how far down the connecting rods reach when crank is turning. And I like the idea of putting sensor under 4th main cap, but ain't the oil pump pickup tube running in that general area as well?

I recall someone here had pics of their block upside down on a stand and with rotating assembly in... Heath maybe? We can use those pics to count pan rail bolt holes as a guide for where the 4th main cap falls with respect to outside of engine.

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Well below any interference. The top of the running oil level is always going to be below the running gear as designed - having it dip into the oil would cause serious arreation problems and suck power.

Ah, true, forgot about that. So we're looking at between 5.5" and 6" below the pain rails. Now as to the fore-aft location... Gotta miss that oil pickup tube, lol

 

[antiqueford]

Jaluhn, did you have a sensor in mind? Seems to me there are some that are made to mount through the side of a tank via a bulkhead connector.

 

[OLDBULL8]

I'm not going to hunt for them for you, but a lot of gensets, lawn mowers and such have low oil sensors/shut down. How about them?

Oh hell I did look. If they trust this in an airplane, it's gotta be good. Rather costly tho.

http://www.aircraftextras.com/lowoilsensor.htm

http://www.globalspec.com/ProductFi...a&setag=LABS&gclid=CLGWi9eeircCFa5DMgodjjgAxw

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Before ya'll get too into this, make sure that the sensor works the way you think cause I'm pretty sure it's not that simple...... most oil level sensor I've seen are capacitance type, meaning you need an external chip to do the logic routine and operate a relay. The sensor on it's own is useless. It's also going to be somewhat sensitive to gunk, wear, and variation in oil type. Not saying it wouldn't work, but there's more than meets the eye.

According to the EVTM it is as simple as key-on power to warning light (hopefully already there as part of the printed board on back of gauge cluster), key-on power relay (I have a power distribution panel with many empty slots), ground for the relay, wire between relay and waring light, and finally one more wire between relay and oil sensor. Maybe you are correct in that the whole deal will not operate properly without the relay and the timing circuit, but the timing circuit is (or at least should be) attached to the relay so they are a package deal from the donor vehicle.

Also, eek on the cost of the low coolant sensor. And drilling and soldering onto the upper tank, not sure I'm comfortable with this, soldering is not welding, lol.

Oldbull, that's a neat sensor. Cost is definitely not out of line considering its intended use. My concern would be the constant vibrations our engines are known for, not sure how well something made for a fairly smooth running gasser will hold up to IDI use.

 

[racer30]

Boy did this go big or what..... I put a International front sump pan on my engine for My Motor home swap. It has a dipstick deflector just like the ford pan to direct the dip stick into the sump along the side of the pan. The front sump pan is 11.5 inches deep at the sump and 8 inches at the rear tapering to 9 inches towards the sump. The (Ford pan is 6 inches at the front). My new pan has windage plates as well. I put two AN10 fittings in the side of the pan for my air compressor oil return and one for the turbo. I had to change dipstick locations to the front location that is plugged with a steel ball. I drove out the ball and moved it to the (Ford) location and installed the dip stick fitting in the front hole. Now the front location is higher on the block by 5/8" so the oil level will be higher by that amount plus the angle of the engine will make the pan have to fill significantly higher to reach the full mark. So I have determined that I will cut the dip stick tube at the top so the stick moves into the pan deeper to adjust the oil level so I don't overfill the pan and submerge my crank. I have thought about it some and I think cutting about 1 inch should get me the clearance and keep my oil level close to what was in the ford pan. I already have it installed on the engine so its to late for me to put a sensor in But I like the Idea and I also like the coolant level light Idea. We have them on the newer Motor Homes so I will look for a overflow tank with a bung for a sensor for my swap. I will be doing a build thread soon to cover my build and swap with lots of pics very soon.

 

[jaluhn83]

Oilbull, interesting link.

Was going to use this: http://ecatalog.gemssensors.com/ecatalog/singlepoint-level/en/01701. Not sure if it'll link, so here it is on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Gems-Sensors-Mounting-Diameter-Actuation/dp/B009NAJVF8. Just have to make a little bracket off the inside of the oil pan for it. I was going to make a baffle too for it to try and minimize slosh, and then was going to run the wiring up to almost the lower edge of the block and make some sort of a bulkhead fitting, probably with a brass plug drilled out and epoxied.

Hanging it off the pan makes wiring and mounting much easier.

I'm planning to put several fittings into the side of the pan this time around, probably 4 plus the fitting I've already got for an oil temp gauge. I've got some weld on pipe thread flanges I was planning to use, probably brazed on. Looking at a suction and return fitting for a remote oil cooler (with electric circulating pump), drain for a crankcase vent oil separator and the 4th port for a different temp sensor.

No reason not to solder the coolant level fitting. The one in the kit if brass and has a nice flange with plenty of area. Just pick a flat spot (I went about 2" outboard of the filler) and make sure it's clean brass. Solder is plenty strong as long as you get a good joint.

LCAM, the relay is probably the brain of the unit - unless it's actually some sort of a float sensor.

 

[OLDBULL8]

My concern on the LS 1700n float switch would be that it only has 9/16" travel and is only rated for 300 degrees max temp. Better check your oil temp after a long run, it may surprise you how hot it is. As to the slight float travel, the verticle location has to be pretty acurate, but if your only going to use it as a warning light, a little light flashing may not bother until it would come on solid.

The oil temp on my PSD runs 190-200 degrees, but the sensor is in the oil galley right after the oil cooler. I'm sure the oil coming off the cylinder walls is a lot hotter than that, so if your oil level runs low, that hot oil may destroy the float. Just a thought.

 

[jaluhn83]

I see sump temps up to about 240* under high load but nothing close to 300. I think if sump temp got that high damage to the sensor would be the least of my concerns

Not sure what you're getting at with your concern over the short travel. All it has to do is switch on when it reaches a certain level, so travel is not relevant. I do agree that you could get blinking from slosh once the level got close to the low point, but that would accomplish the same thing but letting the driver know it's getting low and once it got below that point it'd come on continually anyway.