Oil Level

[jaluhn83]

Random question - how far off the bottom of the pan would you think is the minimum safe oil level? I'm planning to try to put a float switch in for a low oil level warning system when I have the motor apart next. Probably going to wind up putting 3-4 qts in the pan with it sitting on the floor and seeing where that level winds up at. Don't want it set too high and get false alarms all the time, but also not too overly low.

Guess a better question might be what's the minimal amount of oil you'd want in the sump? I'm guessing 1-2 qts is going to be in the system / draining at any given time so you'd have 6-7 in there normally. But that's more or less a guess.....

Thoughts?

 

[racer30]

The Stock ford pan is 11 1/4" deep at the sump. the dip stick full mark is 4 5/8" Into the pan from the pan/block seal surface. If you put a float switch in the pan you will need to put it low enough to not hit the rotating assembly when it is in the "floating up" position or the pick up also. I think its a better Idea than a pressure switch that only tells you when you have no pressure at all....

 

[jaluhn83]

Good info. So the full static height is 6 5/8".

I'm looking at a small vertical travel float, not the big float on a stick type you're probably thinking of. It's ~1" diameter x 2 1/2" height so I don't foresee any issues with clearance of the rotating assembly, especially since the oil level should be well below there anyway. Only thing I can foresee is making sure I clear the oil pickup and keep the wires clear of the rotating assembly.

Got a pressure switch already, and yes it's a must have. Problem is, the pressure switch is a "oh s***" warning - when you get that it's pretty much too late to prevent damage unless you shut it off right then and there or it's just a transient. Oil level gives you 'caution' warning where you can correct the problem before it gets that bad, or at least set yourself up to pull over when you do loose it. Added insurance. Same reason I have a water level sensor - you get a chance to mitigate the problem before it becomes serious if it's a degraded system (ie moderate rate leak / just not topping it up, etc) or you get an extra few seconds if it is catastrophic.

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Two things:
1) IDIs up to and including '87 do not have pressure switches, those are actual pressure senders and your gauge is an actual gauge and not a glorified idiot light. Running a pressure switch in addition to the sender is pointless, unless you hook said switch in a manner that will automatically shut the engine off when pressure goes too low.
2) Many '80s and '90s Ford passenger cars have low oil level sensors from the factory, they screw into the side of the pan and only take one wire to operate.

 

[jaluhn83]

Good point. I ditched the stock gauges long long ago and now have an ISSPRO gauge and I also have a pressure switch set at I think 10 psi? It's not wired to a shutoff, but is hooked up to a nice large bright red light on the center console. The low coolant and overtemp switches also hook up to that light so it acts as a master oh s*** light.

Didn't know fords have low level sensors. I know a number of european cars have them, but most are capacitance type and require a bunch of external logic to more plus are hard to re-engineer. The float switch seemed easiest.

 

[riotwarrior]

...Many '80s and '90s Ford passenger cars have low oil level sensors from the factory, they screw into the side of the pan and only take one wire to operate.

I be looking for one of those sensors and pans, I can then pilfer that part of pan and sensor...

The idea of LOW coolant and LOW oil lights is a good one!

I be on the search next time at P A P autowrecking for sure...

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Low coolant light? How did you install that, details please if you don't mind? My brick has a yellow check engine light on the dash that is unused from the factory, I'd love to put it to good use with a low coolant (and oil too) warning feature.

The factory low oil level warnings can be found on many late-'80s fullsize passenger cars, just about any Lincoln TownCar will have them, as well as many Ford Crown Victoria and Mercury Grand Marquis. The sensor is located on driver side of rear sump of oil pan, several inches away from the transmission bellhousing and pretty much centered on the wall of the sump. It threads into the pan, most pans will have a nut welded on the inside for this. The sensor is open when oil is present and closes to ground (the oil pan) when oil is low. In factory form this is used to trigger a relay with a small timing circuit attached to it, which then grounds the light on the dash to trigger it. The timing circuit is used so the light don't flash on and off when oil sloshes around during hard driving conditions (such as coming around a tight corner a bit too fast). If you don't care much or this feature then I don't see why the waring light cannot be hooked up directly to the sensor, the wire size is more than adequate for this, even more so if an LED is used instead of the normal #194 light bulb.

 

[antiqueford]

I was just thinking of doing something like this for my truck. My oil consumption is still quite high, and it worries me when I check it and its 3qts low....

The factory switches sound like a real easy option too

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Easy to install, sure, if the pan is dropped. At the current moment I have no plans for dropping the pan tho (cause in a typical Ford fashion it involves lifting the engine) so I'm taking suggestions as to how to punch a 1" or so hole in the side of the pan without creating a bunch of metal shavings that can later be picked up by the oil pump. Any ideas?

 

[antiqueford]

Grease the drill bit. Give it like 1 turn with the drill, clean the chips off, regrease, and repeat. Then change your oil and get a filter magnet.

 

[antiqueford]

^ Inb4 somebody hollers at me for that suggestion.

Disclaimer: You take full responsibility for damages caused by the getting metal shavings in your oil.

That said, I wasn't the one who came up with that method, and I sure won't be the last one to use it. It works great, just be careful.

 

[LCAM-01XA]

That may work good. Especially since I have a big magnet with an opening in the middle that I can center around the hole I'm drilling to catch whatever the grease don't. Now, determining where exactly to put said hole...

Altho I check my oil on regular basis, so an oil level sensor is not all that vital to my needs. Oil temperature on the other hand, along with low coolant warning, should be sufficient to avoid an Icanfixall moment when his freeze plug let go wjile driving and he didn't know till it was too late.

 

[riotwarrior]

Low coolant light? How did you install that, details please if you don't mind? My brick has a yellow check engine light on the dash that is unused from the factory, I'd love to put it to good use with a low coolant (and oil too) warning feature.

The factory low oil level warnings can be found on many late-'80s fullsize passenger cars, just about any Lincoln TownCar will have them, as well as many Ford Crown Victoria and Mercury Grand Marquis. The sensor is located on driver side of rear sump of oil pan, several inches away from the transmission bellhousing and pretty much centered on the wall of the sump. It threads into the pan, most pans will have a nut welded on the inside for this. The sensor is open when oil is present and closes to ground (the oil pan) when oil is low. In factory form this is used to trigger a relay with a small timing circuit attached to it, which then grounds the light on the dash to trigger it. The timing circuit is used so the light don't flash on and off when oil sloshes around during hard driving conditions (such as coming around a tight corner a bit too fast). If you don't care much or this feature then I don't see why the waring light cannot be hooked up directly to the sensor, the wire size is more than adequate for this, even more so if an LED is used instead of the normal #194 light bulb.

Didn't do this, think this is a great idea, that's all... It seems to be more up yer alley than mine...

Easy to install, sure, if the pan is dropped. At the current moment I have no plans for dropping the pan tho (cause in a typical Ford fashion it involves lifting the engine) so I'm taking suggestions as to how to punch a 1" or so hole in the side of the pan without creating a bunch of metal shavings that can later be picked up by the oil pump. Any ideas?

There is a video on doing FORD IDI oil pan repairs where they fiberglass a new pan cover over a rusted pan.
One thing they do is open oil filler, drain all the oil, then stick a WET Dry vacuum on pan drain hole to keep the oil from leaking out the pan messing the bond. I wonder if a magnet outside, a 1" GREASED hole saw and the vacuum in a drained pan would work for this idea? You could cut ALMOST through pan...then maybe tin snip the last bit out carefully? I dunno...just throwing ideas out there I know I"m on a limb most of the time so I just took a step further with that plan I think

I'd like LOW oil lights and low coolant lights and even LOW transmission oil too....Cause when wheeling a small punched hole/crack can lead to loss of material and subsequent failure. Warning lights would do wonders to alleviate said instances, and it's for wheeling not daily travel that this interests me.

JM2CW

Al

 

[antiqueford]

There is a video on doing FORD IDI oil pan repairs where they fiberglass a new pan cover over a rusted pan.
One thing they do is open oil filler, drain all the oil, then stick a WET Dry vacuum on pan drain hole to keep the oil from leaking out the pan messing the bond. I wonder if a magnet outside, a 1" GREASED hole saw and the vacuum in a drained pan would work for this idea? You could cut ALMOST through pan...then maybe tin snip the last bit out carefully? I dunno...just throwing ideas out there I know I"m on a limb most of the time so I just took a step further with that plan I think


Al

Maybe it doesn't make too much of a difference, but I think that drilling the hole with some oil still in the pan would help to suspend any debris that do escape the grease, and wash them out the drain hole when you change the oil.

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Didn't do this, think this is a great idea, that's all... It seems to be more up yer alley than mine...

You didn't but Jaluhn83 did, and it was him who the question about low coolant waning light was directed at, you just happened to ninja my post.

There is a video on doing FORD IDI oil pan repairs where they fiberglass a new pan cover over a rusted pan.
One thing they do is open oil filler, drain all the oil, then stick a WET Dry vacuum on pan drain hole to keep the oil from leaking out the pan messing the bond. I wonder if a magnet outside, a 1" GREASED hole saw and the vacuum in a drained pan would work for this idea? You could cut ALMOST through pan...then maybe tin snip the last bit out carefully? I dunno...just throwing ideas out there I know I"m on a limb most of the time so I just took a step further with that plan I think

A hole saw may work best indeed, since all the metal shavings remain on the outside of the pan till the very last moment. Add magnet and grease, and I should be golden. Still remains the question how far below the pan rails to put said 1" hole. And where front-to-back on the pan so it misses the rotating assembly and the oil pump pickup. The sensor itself is about 3/4" in diameter and 2" long, it goes in thru the side of the pan and sits horizontal inside it, the "float" is contained within sensor snout itself.

I'd like LOW oil lights and low coolant lights and even LOW transmission oil too....Cause when wheeling a small punched hole/crack can lead to loss of material and subsequent failure. Warning lights would do wonders to alleviate said instances, and it's for wheeling not daily travel that this interests me.

At this point I'm more interested in transmission pressure gauge... I don't seem to be liking much how and when she shifts with my "new" gears, I'm thinking of turning the TPS down a bit while at the same time raising the line pressure only, overall effect should be retained line pressure but lower shift points. Tho for a ZF5 with a PTO cover I'm thinking installing one of Ford's engine oil sensors should be an easy job, no?