No start problems, long list of symptoms

[npe3484]

First, let me say that I've done a bunch of searching related to cold starts, hard starting, and other starting issues. A lot of the information was helpful but I'm still unsure of where to start (no pun intended).

I just got this truck a week ago, and on cold mornings it takes a very long time to start. I've cycled the key with around 20 seconds of "run" time. The WTS light will stay illuminated for around 8-10 seconds followed by 3-4 clicks (relay? solenoid?).

It will then take 3-5 intervals of 10 second cranking time for the engine to finally start sputtering. Once it is running, the idle is low and it feels like it will die any second. After a few minutes of this rough idle it will smooth out and run smoothly.

This morning I went out and tried starting the truck in 20 degree weather. Unfortunately the batteries died before I was able to get it running. While checking the engine over I noticed a few things that worry me.

1. One of the batteries is small, 500 CCA's and the other is larger but has no label. I think 2 new batteries are needed.

2. When I took the radiator cap off, I can't see any coolant. This makes me think the coolant level is very low.

3. The coolant in the overflow tank is like a frozen slurpee consistency. This makes me think the coolant/water ratio is way off.

4. The injector that has a direct line from the fuel filter is damp and appears to be leaking.

I plugged in the block heater and put the battery charger on too. When I plugged in the heater, I heard it start to gurgle, and the lines going in and out of it started to get warm. I'm hoping this means that the heater is functioning properly. However, if I am low on coolant, will the heater be of much benefit?

Sorry for the long post, but I'm still very new when it comes to diesels.

 

[tractorman86]

1. One of the batteries is small, 500 CCA's and the other is larger but has no label. I think 2 new batteries are needed.
you never want to run two different size batteries, the big one will kill the little one which will in turn drain the big one that is trying to balance out

2. When I took the radiator cap off, I can't see any coolant. This makes me think the coolant level is very low.
deffinately top it off, a 50/50 mix should be good

3. The coolant in the overflow tank is like a frozen slurpee consistency. This makes me think the coolant/water ratio is way off.
see #2

4. The injector that has a direct line from the fuel filter is damp and appears to be leaking.
the line to the center of the back of the injector pump? that is the feed line and that is probably why it is hard to start, if fuel is getting out while it is running then twice as much air is getting in when it is not running. there are rubber olives in the line nut replace them or the whole hose setup.

I plugged in the block heater and put the battery charger on too. When I plugged in the heater, I heard it start to gurgle, and the lines going in and out of it started to get warm. I'm hoping this means that the heater is functioning properly. However, if I am low on coolant, will the heater be of much benefit?
probably

Sorry for the long post, but I'm still very new when it comes to diesels

 

[Agnem]

Sounds to me like you've already identified all your issues.

1) Slow spin - get fresh batteries
2) Coolant suspect - Always change ALL fluids in a new to you vehicle right away.
3) Wet fuel lines - You've got a leak (which is wear your hard starts are probably coming from)
4) Block Heater - Plug it in. This negates a lot of your glow plug issues if you have any (which it doesn't sound like you do).

Get to work man!

 

[sassyrel]

get two of the largest batteries you can get--make sure the cable on the hot post of the right batt is ok, i/e not corroded---as this will really affect your cranking-------------coolant low,get it started, let it warm up, look down the fill cap and see if see any coolant,and this goes with the slurpee consistency, if you can see coolant--after the truck is warmed up--pour straight antifreeze in there till full--why??? because if you have slurpee now--you need pure antifreeze to get it close to 50/50--as the block holds a bunch of coolant--slurpee means you wayyy short of antifreeze--then start attacking the leaks in the system----lots of leaks on the caps on the injectors---if it leaks from the filter to the pump--there are rubber washers on that line, that are easy to replace--

 

[jtate]

4. The injector that has a direct line from the fuel filter is damp and appears to be leaking.
i believe the line that hes talking about is the rubber one that comes off the fist injector on the pass side, and runs to the filter housing. if thats the line that your talking about its a known problem for air entering t5he system. you can actually plug both ends, the one on the filter and the one on the injector return cap. hope this helps for the hard starting.

 

[npe3484]

I forgot to mention, after it has been started and warmed up to operating temps, it will have no problem starting up again 2-3 hours later. What would make it start so easily then?

 

[david85]

Lets see what difference having the block heater plugged in will make. I have a suspicion that you might have glow plug issues in addition to fuel drainback. There are electrical connectors that can give the glow plug controller a false reading if they are corroded and have extra resistance.

If it starts fine with the block heater plugged in, then you certainly have a glow plug issue that might be causing most of the problem.

Next time you try and start it, take the fuel filter off and see where the fuel level is inside the filter. It should be full right to the top. If its only 3/4 full, then you definately have a fuel drain back problem. Refill it before attempting to start as it will save on your batteries and starter.

 

[npe3484]

Well I had to work a 12 hours shift today so I didn't get much time to work on the truck. I did top off the radiator with coolant. It took 2 gallons! I'm really hoping there aren't serious issues with the motor, like a blown headgasket.

The radiator cap also concerned me. It's got some kind of slimy build-up on it.

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Anyway, I've got the batteries trickle charging now. Hopefully in the morning I'll be able to get it started and let the coolant circulate. Then I'll check it again and find out how much more I need to add.

What is involved in getting the leaky injector fixed?

This is the culprit... the one right next to the fuel filter.

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Would the kit discussed in this thread get me headed in the right direction?

http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?t=28663

 

[Papabear]

concerning the rad cap slime i would do a compression test and a leakdown test. i am sure there are much more knowledgeable people here that can explain it better than me but here goes. when a diesel engine is running under heavy load or higher RPM than optimum range the top portion of the cylinder will deform slightly to an oval which inturn will compromise your head gasket seal on the compression stroke therefore pushing diesel ash as well as engine oil if the engine high mileage at work we get it in the older engines all the time if there is NO COOLANT in your oil and you have decent compression and it passes the leakdown i would not be concerned. i would suggest if possible running at lower rpm. (if i am wrong i am hoping someone will correct me but this what my employer explained it was to me) P.S. also check your exhaust colour and smell it if you smell coolant in the exhaust it is time to open the hood and break out the tools.

 

[jtate]

x2 on what david 85 said. i just purchased the exact same set from them and its a real good set. that would definitly fix some of your air intrusion, unless its coming from other places to. from the looks of the picture it looks like its coming from around the injector return line cap. that rubber hose thats comes off the return line and goes to the filter housing is the hose i mentioned in my previous reply. that hose is a guilty culprit for letting air into the system. make sure and change it if it needs to be changed and some even plug off the ends and do away with it.

 

[david85]

The muck on the rad cap seems to be oil sludge. Could be from many different sources, but what is more worrying to me is how the coolant got so low in the first place. I sure hope the two are not related but I suspect they may be....

Only thing you can do now is fill the coolant, charge the batteries and start troubleshooting.

 

[npe3484]

I've got the coolant fully topped off now. After charging the batteries all night, I was able to get it started this morning. I let the glow plugs cycle twice and then held the pedal all the way down while cranking the engine. It started on the 2nd try.

Since the coolant is now full, tomorrow morning I'll be able to actually use the block heater. I'll report back with how it starts using the heater.

Next up is getting that leaky injector fixed.

 

[npe3484]

Well, it's back to not starting again.

After putting the coolant system pressure tester on the truck, I found that 2 of my heater hoses were leaking. That is where all of my coolant was disappearing to.

It's got 2 good batteries in it now that are rated at 850 CCA. The engine turns over with plenty of speed so I don't think it's a battery issue.

The main symptom that is puzzling me now is the lack of any pressure at the schraeder valve. From what I've read, I should be getting a stream of fuel coming out of the valve when it is depressed. Could I have some kind of fuel pump problem?

 

[npe3484]

As a last resort I tried giving it a small spray of starting fluid today. The air filter and housing were still on when I shot the fluid in. What really surprised me was how quickly it started! I know it's a big no-no to be using this stuff but I really needed to use the truck.

Anyway, what's my next step to getting this truck back to health?

 

[npe3484]

I also found a 2-pronged connecter unplugged right behind the upper radiator hose. I believe it is part of the cold idle advance solenoid?

Could this have anything to do with my hard starting?