Need some help everyone,Injector pump

[jtcfanof3]

Ok,
This is my bro in laws truck,Im trying too help but we have gone beyond my gas only mechanical skills!
Anyway,its a :
2004 F350
6.0L
Unsure of the date,I know its gotta be ither a pre 9/22/03 or a post 9/22/03 too get the right injector pump,anyway where is the location of this pump and or is it pretty simple too change out?
I meen Im swaping in a 305 into a 88 Blazer so I have tools and some skills so.... Im hoping this will be an easier fix.
If your wondering,we can not get the thing started,every so often we can get it too run for a few minutes,but its down on power and acts like it is starving for fuel,we have changed both fuel filters and the fuel pump is working great,we have cranked it enough too have bleed the lines of any air,but we were told the injector pump may be bad,how could we tell?
The truck has 181,000 miles on the Odo,it was a camper hauler,all hwy miles.
Thanks in advance!

 

[jharvey]

Are you sure it's the injector pump?? the 6.0 use High Pressure Oil Pump to fire the injectors, is the top filter canister full of fuel? I haven't heard of anyone having hpo pump issues but there is always a first.

Has the check engine light come on and have you checked for any codes?

Lot's of sensors on these rigs and any one or combinaton could cause a problem, my first thought is leaning more towards the Exhaust Back Pressure Vave sensor not working and keeping the valve closed and choking the engine down.

Let's start with the simple and work into the expensive

Oh yeah welcome to OB

John

 

[jtcfanof3]

Thanks!
Im not gonna lie,I honestly have no idea,Im just trying too help get this back on the road,hes a contractor and needs it too pull his 16ft enclosed trailer!
Heres the full out story:
2 weeks ago, one of his guys filled the tank partially with gasoline,probably 6-8 gallons,ya I know MORON!

Anyway,it ran ok until the fuel level got just below a 1/4 tank,then it wouldnt run,Imagine that!We dropped the tank,cleaned the tank out of all gasoline and drained the lines.
No SES light,I have an Actron $180 code scanner that just wont read any codes or anything for that matter,so unsure in that sense.
Yes the upper filter bowl fills with fuel,and high pressure at that!This is how I discovered the gasoline in the fuel,my hand smelled of a gasdiesel mix,then we found out the whole deal with the moron that put gas in the tank.
I have spent hrs going over this truck!
Help a guy out!

 

[jharvey]

Well I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you most probably have more serious engine worries if it was filled with gas and run for any length of time.

I don't think the Actron will read the PSD computer but I could be wrong.

 

[jtcfanof3]

Ya,thats what scares me!
We can get it started,sometimes,it will run for a couple mins then act like its starving for fuel and die!
I dunno,Im lost!
Ya my scanner is awesome,but wont work on his truck,it just says its not pluged in too the ALDL.

 

[jharvey]

This is a SWAG (Scientific Wild *** Guess), could be an injector problem you may want to get some diesel additive like Power Service Diesel Kleen in the WHITE bottle and add the entire bottle to the tank and see if that helps lubricate the injectors any, gas has a funny way of drying out things.

On the old 7.3's you could pour the additive right into the fuel bowl and fire it up to "quick clean" the injectors, not sure if the same holds true on the 6.0 as I've not done it.

Do you know how much diesel was in the tank when the gas was mixed in?? I have a real bad feeling that this motor is toasted

 

[tonkadoctor]

Power Service Diesel Kleen in the WHITE bottle and add the entire bottle to the tank and see if that helps lubricate the injectors any, gas has a funny way of drying out things.

Right product wrong color.......Power Service Diesel Kleen is the GREY bottle ......white is the anti gel

 

[Double-S-Diesel]

running that long with gas. I can bet that the injectors are toast.

 

[jharvey]

Right product wrong color.......Power Service Diesel Kleen is the GREY bottle ......white is the anti gel

Either one will work, I was looking at the lubricity additive not just the Cetane booster.

But I have a bad feeling that nothing is gonna help those injectors

 

[tonkadoctor]

Please don't take this wrong, it's meant as constructive. Reading your posts it is obvious you don't know much about these oilburners but want to learn. I highly recommend you get your hands on a manual for this engine before tearing into it as it can save you alot of time and $$$$$ in the end.

If you have good mechanical skills you will be fine but I think you realize there is a learning curve (not to bad if I can figure it out) and that once you are familiar with these engines and how the HEUI injection system works it's not that hard to figure stuff out.

We're all here to help and learn so fire away with the questions and we'll do our best to help where we can.

Might want to make your general location public, never know when another member is close and can lend a hand or advice.

Either one will work, I was looking at the lubricity additive not just the Cetane booster.

But I have a bad feeling that nothing is gonna help those injectors

Same here which is why I run a standard dose of the Grey bottle diesel kleen on every tank full since I replaced my injectors. Figured the extra Cetane point wouldn't hurt for fuel milage either on this ULSD crap

I have a bad feeling you and Nick are right about the injectors, they can go bad and not throw a code in the computer. Many other things can be bad too without throwing a code too, got too familiar with that aspect when I first started wrenching on my 7.3 psd.

 

[jtcfanof3]

I am a mechanic,just not professionly,I was a Hevy Construction Deisel Mechanic(62B)in the ARMY National Guard,sadly that was 14 yrs ago and these trucks have become a bit more complicated,not that the standard Duece and Duece and a half was ever complicated!

But trust me,Im not one for not asking questions!
After doing ALOT of research we have come too the conclusion the injectors need replaced,which is better then we intially thought,we were told by many that the engine was toast,but after having it looked at by a garage and doing a compression test we have decided that its OK,so we have decided that spening the $1900 for new injectors and a new fuel pump(mainly just too be sure it too is not damaged)is the way too go.
But my question is this,swapping the injectors isnt that hard,however I need too know if the lines from the injector need too be bleed?Or do you think we should also replace the injector pump all at the same time?
I presume swapping injectors is pretty easy,they snap in and out correct?
ANyway,any info you can lead me too or give me on swapping the injectors would be awesome!

 

[tonkadoctor]

I'm not an expert by any means on this but I'll throw some info to you to fill in until the rescue squad gets here

The 6.0 is very similar to the 7.3 powerstroke.

They are under the valve covers, there are no fuel lines running to them, just an electrical connector.

The injectors are Hydraulic Electronic Unit Injectors hence the HEUI acronym you will see most often while reading up on them.

These engines have 2 oil pumps, one low pressure to provide lubrication and one High pressure oil pump to pressurize the fuel in the injectors until the computer activates the injector to fire the pressurized shot of oil into the combustion chamber.

On the powerstroke there is a high pressure oil rail and a fuel rail built into the engine. on the 6.0 I beleive the oil rail is built into the block and the fuel rail is built into the heads unlike the 7.3 that has both built into the heads.

Before pulling the injectors you need to drain the oil and fuel rails to prevent as much fluid as possible from entering the combustion chambers and causing hydrolock that can bend and break rods and possibly ventilate the engine block if this happens.

In an earlier post I recommended a tech manual for this truck, It is a must have on these engines, unfortunatly I don't beleive Haynes has a manual out on the 6.0 superduty trucks yet and you may have to seek out one on eBay.

There may be an article on the net somewhere but I havn't found it yet for the 6.0.

Here are a few good links to get you up to speed a bit on the powerstroke injection system.
http://www.intellidog.com/dieselmann/injector.htm
http://www.intellidog.com/dieselmann/60psd.htm
http://www.swamp-donkey.biz/

Lots of info on these 2 sites so look around

Plan on spending a good day or possibly 2 on these injectors. You will also need a good torque wrench that measures in inch lbs to tighten down the injectors.....24 in lbs for the 6.0 IIRC from what I was just reading. Ford has a Tech bulletin to NOT use air tools on these injectors too

6.0 Injector Removal/Installation:
It should be noted that injector serve on the 6.0 is different than on the 7.3. No air tools should be used in removal or installation of the injectors to prevent damage to the injector. A T-40 Torx bit with a minimum shaft lenght of 2" is require to ensure proper torque of the injector (24 ft/lbs) and to prevent the drive tool from contacting the injector and damaging it. New o-rings and combustion seals should be used any time an injector is removed. Care should be taken when installing the high oil pressure rail to prevent damage to the upper injector o-rings.
TSB# 03-20-10

 

[jtcfanof3]

Thanks man,Ive read up on the 6.0L bible that I found in the tech section of these forums.
I have my bro in law ordering the special high pressure oil line tool too remove the HP oil rail line.
Seems pretty straight forward,I told him too order the glowplugs while he was at it,I meen they are right there so..........
181K so..... may as well while we are in there.
Ive got 3 diffrent torque wreches so Im good too go there.Apperars too just be time consuming so ya already had that planned.Garage wants $2400 too change these so.....Im saving him some $$ by doing this.
This is kinda offtopic,but this is waht I am in the middle of at the moment:
This:305 V8

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Is going in this:1988 2WD Blazer

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Im confident this will be a good learning experience!
Thanks for the links,if I have more questions,I know where too come back too!
Good site BTW!

 

[tonkadoctor]

The V-8 swap into the blzer should be pretty straight forward, be cool when it's done too.

I think you'll find that once you learn more about the PSD and how everything works they are actually fairly easy to work on, mostly just time consuming.

While many people hate computers on vehicles complaining how complex they are the truth is they can help a lot with diagnosis and I like them for the most part......Unfortunatly they can't always tell where it hurts and this is what separates the men from the boys when it comes to troubleshooting skills. Sometimes ya just gotta go old school on them and unfortunatly most techs out there with less than 10 years under their belts don't know what old school is when the computer don't tell them.

Worse yet is when you have a combination of small problems that led to a big problem that has to be sorted out one piece at a time.

Fire away and we'll do the best we can to help.