'94IDITurbo7.3
HAMMER DOWN!
it actually is if you want to go higher than 300whp and have it be dead reliable.
IDI "What if..." Durability and build question
- Thread starter WisdomWarlord
- Start date
Umm ya dropping a fummins in isn't all that hard, all that really needs done custom wise is motor mounts, everything else is readily available in the aftermarket (haven't researched prices) I will admit prices for the engine itself varies from $1k to $4k but theres no cheaper way to get 500whp out of an idi based truck at least currently
Wood
Newbie
i wish it was just as simple as motor mounts. to each their own. ill keep doing my research. im not looking for 500hp, but 250-300 would be great. my dad thinks his 24v cummins put out about 350 and its got some POWER. so id be really happy with 250. just want to tow my 24' trailer up steep windy grades without it blowing up or slowing to a crawl.
a ****** swap might be right for me. idk yet. thanks for the input.
justinray
Contributor
There's no need to do a crazy build if you're hunting 250 hp. A 90 cc DB2, and well sized turbo will do the job as long as the rest of te engine is healthy. You can have that IP for under 700 dollars, and piece together the turbo setup of yoir choice for less than 1500. So your looking at maybe 2000 dollars and maybe a weekends work.
To put the boost vs cfm thing into a real time equation you would get similar if not better power out of twins pushing 15 psi than you would with a single turbo pushing 30 psi. Assuming both setups are properly sized to run the specific setup.
To put the boost vs cfm thing into a real time equation you would get similar if not better power out of twins pushing 15 psi than you would with a single turbo pushing 30 psi. Assuming both setups are properly sized to run the specific setup.
Wood
Newbie
understood, its the volume of air not the pressure that air is being squeezed to.
and the turbo setup... would my banks system be adequate? or would i need to replace the banks turbo? can i get something to mount on the same flange (manifolds) i was going to run a intercooler and modify my intake like R&D Performance. i have a mig and real nice tig, im just new at using the tig.
Last edited:
88 Ford
Full Access Member
A Banks turbo kit will not make 250hp. They are too inefficient at those boost levels. You will want to look for a bigger turbo for sure. The only replacements that I know of thus far are the turbos that Mel is producing and the A3k that R&D Performance has to replace the ATS turbo kits.
IMHO any of the "big 3" turbo kits are worthless on anything running more then a stock pump, with the boost/pressure/air flow levels a turned up pump is capable of they just simply get pushed out of their efficiency range (although they are remarkably smoke free)
And yes I am still running an ATS 093 turbo but that's purley because I have stock head bolts and an abused high mileage motor (oh and a lack of money) or Id throw an A3k on it in a heartbeat.
And yes I am still running an ATS 093 turbo but that's purley because I have stock head bolts and an abused high mileage motor (oh and a lack of money) or Id throw an A3k on it in a heartbeat.
justinray
Contributor
The sidewinder wouldnot be ideal unless heavily intercooled and even then the turbo at that speed is a ticking time bomb. I have however toyed with the idea of a sidewinder on each bank, but deserted it due to the difficulty of finding parts for a rebuild.
WisdomWarlord
Registered User
Guys guys guys (and girls if there are any here), remember, for the purpose of this thread, the fueling problem is solved. The reason I threw that in was for this very reason, fueling seems to be the big limit. There are talks on many diesel boards of stupid high hp IDI's, but somehow noone knows anything useful if a guy wanted to just duplicate an already successful build.
Personally, when someone tells me they had or have a 450hp IDI but can't remember something so basic as what cr they used or what pump the ran on, I call bull. I suspect that just like in the gasoline world, most of these supposed 250+ whp builds are actually 200hp plus a healthy dose of wishful thinking!
Even if I'm wrong about that, the fact is that if you cant give details of a build, all you're doing is confusing and frustrating people. Its kinda like the Grinch. Remember, on his agenda for Christmas Eve, one item was "solve world hunger. Tell no one". Not very helpful of him.
Since fuel is the IDI Achilles heel, I'm wondering what the possibilities are if that wasn't the case.
It's for another thread after more homework on my part, but I do have an idea for a real world and fairly easy to duplicate 180cc's of fuel reliably. If it works like I think, it's gonna be one of those magical moments we have all had where we smack our forehead and say "omg really? That's so simple!" followed by a kick in the ass for not thinking of it first. So for now, lets assume my imaginary fuel system actually works.
As for a Cummins, well, its a fine engine and all, but if i wanted a Cummins then I'd get a Dodge and if I got a Dodge I would have to sell my Ford, and well, that aint happening. Its a personal thing, I'm a Ford man for reasons that do and some that do not include their products. Especially when it comes to trucks.
There are 2 kinds of pickup trucks to me. There are Fords, and there are mistakes that can be corrected by getting a Ford. The best of these is of course anything with an IDI in it.
*steps down off my soapbox to go hallucinate about the million mile 600whp IDI parked in the driveway of my "happy place"*
Personally, when someone tells me they had or have a 450hp IDI but can't remember something so basic as what cr they used or what pump the ran on, I call bull. I suspect that just like in the gasoline world, most of these supposed 250+ whp builds are actually 200hp plus a healthy dose of wishful thinking!
Even if I'm wrong about that, the fact is that if you cant give details of a build, all you're doing is confusing and frustrating people. Its kinda like the Grinch. Remember, on his agenda for Christmas Eve, one item was "solve world hunger. Tell no one". Not very helpful of him.
Since fuel is the IDI Achilles heel, I'm wondering what the possibilities are if that wasn't the case.
It's for another thread after more homework on my part, but I do have an idea for a real world and fairly easy to duplicate 180cc's of fuel reliably. If it works like I think, it's gonna be one of those magical moments we have all had where we smack our forehead and say "omg really? That's so simple!" followed by a kick in the ass for not thinking of it first. So for now, lets assume my imaginary fuel system actually works.
As for a Cummins, well, its a fine engine and all, but if i wanted a Cummins then I'd get a Dodge and if I got a Dodge I would have to sell my Ford, and well, that aint happening. Its a personal thing, I'm a Ford man for reasons that do and some that do not include their products. Especially when it comes to trucks.
There are 2 kinds of pickup trucks to me. There are Fords, and there are mistakes that can be corrected by getting a Ford. The best of these is of course anything with an IDI in it.
*steps down off my soapbox to go hallucinate about the million mile 600whp IDI parked in the driveway of my "happy place"*
88 Ford
Full Access Member
I can give you the links to the builds of highest powered IDIs that have been dynoed thus far. Both dynoed right around 350hp and then added more fuel after that. Anyway here's the links...
http://powerstrokenation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108058
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1115258-project-smogie-racinndrummins-idi-build.html
http://powerstrokenation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108058
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1115258-project-smogie-racinndrummins-idi-build.html
88 Ford
Full Access Member
There are a few other high powered builds going as we speak but they are not yet fully completed and have not dynoed.
idiabuse
Full Access Member
My .020 over 7.3 engine block was sonic checked and the thinnest spot was .175 thickest was .260 plenty meat for boost and even a few more rebuilds.
The 7.3 thin block theory is just that.
Any CAT diesel with replaceable cylinders still get pin holes from cavitation from poor coolant pratices and those cylinders are thick like .300 thick.
So the huge worry of a thin 7.3 not debunked but you have to check your cylinders with a sonic checker then you know what you own...
Javier
The 7.3 thin block theory is just that.
Any CAT diesel with replaceable cylinders still get pin holes from cavitation from poor coolant pratices and those cylinders are thick like .300 thick.
So the huge worry of a thin 7.3 not debunked but you have to check your cylinders with a sonic checker then you know what you own...
Javier
Wood
Newbie
anyone have a picture of the heads? like the prechambers or whatever their called?
if your worried about cyl walls, just sleeve all 8. my dads work does it on everyone they build for warranty reasons.
to the OP i think the weak link is the head gaskets. they can only hold so much cylinder pressure for so long.... ive been looking into orings and a MLS or copper gaskets. a guy locally says he can cut the copper gaskets for me.
from what ive been reading the heads can only flow so much. i think that might be another restriction. not sure how much porting one could do. probably a lot of work for minimal gain.
if your worried about cyl walls, just sleeve all 8. my dads work does it on everyone they build for warranty reasons.
to the OP i think the weak link is the head gaskets. they can only hold so much cylinder pressure for so long.... ive been looking into orings and a MLS or copper gaskets. a guy locally says he can cut the copper gaskets for me.
from what ive been reading the heads can only flow so much. i think that might be another restriction. not sure how much porting one could do. probably a lot of work for minimal gain.
'94IDITurbo7.3
HAMMER DOWN!
go check out the idi section at ford-truck.com
A LOT of these exact questions/thoughts have been answered.
A LOT of these exact questions/thoughts have been answered.
Wood
Newbie
can you show me somewhere specific o-rings have been discussed? i have a shop locally that can cut o-rings then another guy close that can make the copper gaskets.
all ive been finding is people saying its not needed and 1500+ dollars to oring a block which is bullsh** and its like only used on all out race cars. i have them on my race car, it sure as hell aint all out, stock GM block. its just needed more often when running super high cylinder pressures.
