Freight_Train
Traitor to the brotherhood
Yea Really,Thanks for your Experimentations......If it wasn't for that I wouldn't have 2 IDIs.....
How much water?
- Thread starter Timthetoolman
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argve
Resident Fruitcake
I would say the 3gph neighborhood would be a better choice, might even step it up to 5~6 gph (if it were me that's where I would start if doing it over again).
What I found with mine was when the water would kick in it would give a little extra push but nothing that would set you back in the seat, the egt's would stop climbing - because once the WW turned on the pyro just sat where it was at pretty much, now it would climb if I kept my foot in the ON position but it would not climb too much or very fast under a load (TT hitched to the back). Now unloaded (no TT hitched) with foot in the ON position the egt's would pretty much stop at about 900 degrees and the power could be kept on.
I have often wondered if I would have gotten better results if I would have just used straight distilled water instead of Windshield washer fluid which has methenol in the mix. I know I would not have gotten the extra power but I believe I would have gained the control over the temps but I'm hound for power so when I feel any extra power then I can't give that up...
What can I say I'm a power ******... I would go into kaniption fits if I lost power or even thought I lost some...
What I found with mine was when the water would kick in it would give a little extra push but nothing that would set you back in the seat, the egt's would stop climbing - because once the WW turned on the pyro just sat where it was at pretty much, now it would climb if I kept my foot in the ON position but it would not climb too much or very fast under a load (TT hitched to the back). Now unloaded (no TT hitched) with foot in the ON position the egt's would pretty much stop at about 900 degrees and the power could be kept on.
I have often wondered if I would have gotten better results if I would have just used straight distilled water instead of Windshield washer fluid which has methenol in the mix. I know I would not have gotten the extra power but I believe I would have gained the control over the temps but I'm hound for power so when I feel any extra power then I can't give that up...
What can I say I'm a power ******... I would go into kaniption fits if I lost power or even thought I lost some...
argve
Resident Fruitcake
Oh yeah,
You should be able to get 1-3 mins out of her with the water deal just don't be a water ******...
Post your results after pulling Jellico, do two runs one with not stopping at the rest area at the bottom of the south bound and one with stopping for a *** at the south bound rest area... I had mine where I could stop at the bottom and still crest it at 55mph with 9.5k TT in tow...
I would also turn up the boost a little, these IDI's can take more than 8.5 they can handle 12 before the turbo starts super heating the air and all gains get lost because of the temps. Just set the WG to open at 10.5 without Windshield cleaner because after injecting WW the boost will push up to 12.5ish even with the WG open at 10... At least that is what I seen.
You should be able to get 1-3 mins out of her with the water deal just don't be a water ******...
Post your results after pulling Jellico, do two runs one with not stopping at the rest area at the bottom of the south bound and one with stopping for a *** at the south bound rest area... I had mine where I could stop at the bottom and still crest it at 55mph with 9.5k TT in tow...
I would also turn up the boost a little, these IDI's can take more than 8.5 they can handle 12 before the turbo starts super heating the air and all gains get lost because of the temps. Just set the WG to open at 10.5 without Windshield cleaner because after injecting WW the boost will push up to 12.5ish even with the WG open at 10... At least that is what I seen.
spencnaz
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The only purpose for having methanol in there is to keep the water from freezing, it really doesn't add anything extra to the process. If it's warm enough were you live, just run distilled water in your system.
rubberfish
Registered User
What do you mean by that?
argve
Resident Fruitcake
Isn't methanol a wood alcohol which is colourless and flammable? so wouldn't it burn in the combustion chamber?
Freight_Train
Traitor to the brotherhood
Yea,the Alcohol will act as a fuel.Plus it will cool better than straight water.Pour some room temp water on your hand,Now pour some room temp alcohol on your hand.The Alcohol is much colder.Heck,Alcohol is a very powerful fuel period.Granted wood alco ain't Methanol racing fuel but it still is potent and a hot burning substance.
jauguston
Retired
Tim,
I was told by Hypermax that a IDI could run 1250 degrees EGT "All day long" when I bought my turbo. You may be being a little too conservative on the EGT.
Jim
I was told by Hypermax that a IDI could run 1250 degrees EGT "All day long" when I bought my turbo. You may be being a little too conservative on the EGT.
Jim
sle2115
NRA LIFE MEMBER
argve
Resident Fruitcake
The reason the alky has a cooler feel is because it's evaporating... sort of like what sweat does to the human body.
spencnaz
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No, no, no. The methanol doesn't do anything for the injection system besides being in there as an antifreeze.
A little history lesson for you. Water injection was first used on propeller driven fighters as a temporary boost increaser for their engines during what is called War Emergency Power. The water injection was used to stop detonation at high boost pressures (sometimes exceeding 70 pounds of boost!) during climb and dogfighting.
Now, when you're at say 20,000 feet, water freezes quite easily. The Germans put methanol to keep the water for injection from freezing at altitude.
Water has the highest specific heat, meaning that it can absorb more heat than other natural fluids (there are others that come close but they are very toxic). Alcohol doesn't freeze until a lower temperature than water and it's miscible (means it mixes completely with) with water.
SO, if you're living where the temp rarely drops below freezing, just use distilled water. The reason I say distilled is that tap water or even bottled water has minerals in it for taste and may leave deposits on the pistons, but this is probably a very remote possibility.
A little history lesson for you. Water injection was first used on propeller driven fighters as a temporary boost increaser for their engines during what is called War Emergency Power. The water injection was used to stop detonation at high boost pressures (sometimes exceeding 70 pounds of boost!) during climb and dogfighting.
Now, when you're at say 20,000 feet, water freezes quite easily. The Germans put methanol to keep the water for injection from freezing at altitude.
Water has the highest specific heat, meaning that it can absorb more heat than other natural fluids (there are others that come close but they are very toxic). Alcohol doesn't freeze until a lower temperature than water and it's miscible (means it mixes completely with) with water.
SO, if you're living where the temp rarely drops below freezing, just use distilled water. The reason I say distilled is that tap water or even bottled water has minerals in it for taste and may leave deposits on the pistons, but this is probably a very remote possibility.
rubberfish
Registered User
And it stings too when it gets in a cut,
or if ya got hangnails like I do.
or if ya got hangnails like I do.
rubberfish
Registered User
So spencnaz, what you're saying is that there
is no gain when using a water/**** mix?
No better cooling or performance?
Now I'm getting confused.
is no gain when using a water/**** mix?
No better cooling or performance?
Now I'm getting confused.
spencnaz
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Ok, I'm going to settle this once and for all. Now remember that water/methanol injection was used on gassers for a long time before diesels, so what I'm about to say applies to all combustion engines.
If youre running a gasser, then yes methanol is advised as it will increase the volatility of the water for combustion. But at the combustion pressures and temps of a diesel, the water is going to flash to steam anyway. Alcohol can add power but with some injection systems the tank can be rather large, sometimes as much as 30% of the diesel fuel used.
Power from a highly turbo'd diesel is limited by exhaust temps rather than smoke emissions. The addition of water to the charge air reduces the peak exhaust temperature. This allows more fuel to be burned without hurting the engine.
Sir Harry Ricardo wrote in his book on the internal combustion engine that mixtures of methanol above 50% "are not desireable because methanol, itself, is prone to preignition". If your diesel is properly fueled for the demands that the driver is placing upon it, then water injection isn't going to add a whole lot of power besides just keeping EGTs down (which is definitely not a bad thing).
Water injection is really cool, but don't use it unless you really need it. Just keeping an eye on your pyrotemps and not having the foot to the floor all the time can save alot of money.
If youre running a gasser, then yes methanol is advised as it will increase the volatility of the water for combustion. But at the combustion pressures and temps of a diesel, the water is going to flash to steam anyway. Alcohol can add power but with some injection systems the tank can be rather large, sometimes as much as 30% of the diesel fuel used.
Power from a highly turbo'd diesel is limited by exhaust temps rather than smoke emissions. The addition of water to the charge air reduces the peak exhaust temperature. This allows more fuel to be burned without hurting the engine.
Sir Harry Ricardo wrote in his book on the internal combustion engine that mixtures of methanol above 50% "are not desireable because methanol, itself, is prone to preignition". If your diesel is properly fueled for the demands that the driver is placing upon it, then water injection isn't going to add a whole lot of power besides just keeping EGTs down (which is definitely not a bad thing).
Water injection is really cool, but don't use it unless you really need it. Just keeping an eye on your pyrotemps and not having the foot to the floor all the time can save alot of money.
DeepRoots
Tug Engineer
strange. we used to make some racing motors.
we ran them on methanol. Like ethylalk it burns cool, tho it burns alot more of it than gas.
we ran them on methanol. Like ethylalk it burns cool, tho it burns alot more of it than gas.
