How about a SBC oil pump as a WMO fuel pump? Is it feasiable? Thoughts and Ideas?

[medic265]

Just thinking out loud a little....

What about using a small block Chevy oil pump as a fuel pump?

There are a couple of obvious problems with this...
1) they seep oil around the shaft.
2) it will make a lot of pressure
3) how do we power it?

Here are my thoughts. Please feel free to jump in. I'm looking for discussion.

1) For myself, I would use the pump with a large bed mounted tank. The pump could be used much like it is in a Chevy engine. i would shaft drive it with a DC motor from outside the tank. Perhaps the motor is mounted on top of the tank with a shaft down to the oil pump down low in the tank. This would allow the weeping to remain inside the tank.

2) I'm not sure about this one. Obviously you could use an external bypass regulator such as one: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aei-13301/overview/ . but that makes the total cost not acceptable I suppose. What if a couple of coils were cut off the internal pump bypass spring? I don't know myself.

3) To me this project would only be feasible if we could come up with a cheap DC motor to use such as a windshield wiper motor. I have know idea how much power would be needed or how many rpms would be needed. Anybody got thoughts on this?

I know we can buy a decent WMO pump in the $150 to $200 range. My reason for thinking about this project is simply because I like to build crap if/when it's feasible and cost effective. Also this could be a modular project in that you could be a sbc pump this week and a motor next week as an example. I also like the modular idea in that if a part breaks then you replace the part and not the entire unit.

Anyway...this is just for a discussion for now...So what do you folks think?

PS...I wanted to add an edit to clarify just A little. I'm looking at this project as a lift/fuel pump and not as a transfer pump. Sorry for any confusion

 

[leswhitt]

I messed around with the SBC pumps and while they work great when they work, mine required constant fiddling and making sure the drill (I used a drill to power it) stayed aligned. I came out LIGHT YEARS ahead when I finally ponied up and bought a gas powered water pump, I wish I had done it from the beginning and saved the 12-15 hours I spent messing with the SBC pumps.

Between my time to drill/tap/align, the 2-3 water pumps I bought, the drill bits, and lovejoy couplers, it was much cheaper to buy the $100 gas powered water pump from HF. The people I collect oil from even like it, I can be in/out in literally less than 15 minutes for 2-3 drums.

 

[medic265]

Thanks for your reply. I too use sbc pumps to move oil around my drums. I should have made my post clearer and I apologize for that.

What I'm talking about is using a sbc pump as a vehicle fuel pump. IE..on the vehicle in the tank to pump fuel to the IP...sorry for the confusion..

Greg

PS..I built a 325 gallon "super sucker" to collect my oil...Works great

 

[leswhitt]

Ahhh, ok. One more question; Why would you do this instead of just using the lift pump? Also, why would you go with the $20 SBC (plus mods and materials) when you can have a Summit pump for $40? Not trying to shoot the idea down, just looking for your reasoning.

 

[medic265]

Well that's a good question. First of all, just cause I like to build stuff. I love to tinker and make crap just because I can. And then sometimes it might save money. Other times to make something better than is currently available.

Second...I believe this could be a very reliable lift/fuel pump. SBC oil pumps last for years without failure. But this would have to be coupled to a reliable DC motor.

Third...This could be a modular design. Meaning that if a part failed you could just replace the part and not the entire pump system.

And as far as using the factory lift pump....I don't know. I suppose you could leave it in place. But my first thought is to pull it but I'm not familiar enough with it's design to give any pros/cons.

I guess I should also say that my basis for this project is using 80%-100% WMO as the fuel. Heavy and Thick...Things that normal fuel/lift pumps don't like. I guess one thought is this: What better pump to pump oil than a pump designed to pump oil..hehe

Thanks again,
Greg

 

[leswhitt]

You're right that stock lift pumps don't like heavy fuel, I went through a couple before I finally got a good one that could handle W85 consistently. Back then I thought about running an electric pump too, I didn't consider an SBC at the time because I could get an off-the-shelf solution for less. That said, if you could build a SBC for $50 that would take the place of an electric pump and didn't sacrifice the SBC reliability, you'd probably have a mile long line of people trying to buy it from you...I know I would!

 

[Ironman03R]

I have one that I attached to an old starter motor for a drum transfer pump, yes it leaks, and will fill a 5 gal bucket in in a few seconds. I think it will make too much pressure and volume to be a useful lift pump.
Have you concidered a belt driven powersteering pump? It has been done before and can be made to work.

 

[subway]

I am with Steve on this one, I used a power steering pump. They to are made to pump oil full time but don't leak. They are more new but plentiful in yards around me for $20-30. Just get one with no resuarvuar and all you have is a in/out connection. I drove mine off the front of the engine, no motor and it goes faster and slower with the engine. A constant duty dc motor that is strong enough and reliable enough to keep that pump turning will be $$$$.

You also have to figure flow, if you can fill a 5 gal bucket in seconds it will probably overload any over the shelf regulators. A power steering pump can be turned back if needed by removing a couple of internal vanes. I can understand where you are going with this, its hard to choke down the cost of a off the shelf heavy oil pump. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Matrix37495]

Has anyone figured out just how much of a motor you need to turn the SBC oil pump under load? I tried a 1hp motor direct coupled and it wouldn't turn once the pump had oil in it, even free flow....

I use a high flow SBC pump run off a drill as a transfer pump.

I keep wanting to get a bigger e pump, but it would be a lot more cost effective to run a modified power steering pump. The one for my fuge setup was off of a 92 VW Cabriolet and moved about 2.5gpm at 3000 rpm (i drilled it out and it's up to 10gpm now )

 

[kbenz]

I am with Steve on this one, I used a power steering pump. They to are made to pump oil full time but don't leak. They are more new but plentiful in yards around me for $20-30. Just get one with no resuarvuar and all you have is a in/out connection. I drove mine off the front of the engine, no motor and it goes faster and slower with the engine. A constant duty dc motor that is strong enough and reliable enough to keep that pump turning will be $$$$.

You also have to figure flow, if you can fill a 5 gal bucket in seconds it will probably overload any over the shelf regulators. A power steering pump can be turned back if needed by removing a couple of internal vanes. I can understand where you are going with this, its hard to choke down the cost of a off the shelf heavy oil pump. Just my 2 cents worth.

really old post but I had some thoughts.
I plan to run two tanks. one 100% diesel for start up and shut down. one auxiliary tank for wmo. each will have it's own pump with one way valves and both returning to wmo tank. I have a holley red on the diesel tank. could I use a cut down(apart) turbo (in the exhaust underneath the truck). to use the shaft to turn the p pump? Or have I been drinking to much?

 

[subway]

are you talking about using the exhaust housing on a turbo to drive a fuel pump for WMO? I am sure it is possible but I would think it would need some serious gear reduction. I have heard that turbos can spin at 100K RPM where a pump is probably spinning at several hundred to a couple thousand RPM. You would also be creating a serous exhaust restriction without the gain of boost to the engine.

I still think if you could belt drive a pump off the engine like I suggested it could work for a fairly reasonable cost.

 

[kbenz]

are you talking about using the exhaust housing on a turbo to drive a fuel pump for WMO? I am sure it is possible but I would think it would need some serious gear reduction. I have heard that turbos can spin at 100K RPM where a pump is probably spinning at several hundred to a couple thousand RPM. You would also be creating a serous exhaust restriction without the gain of boost to the engine.

I still think if you could belt drive a pump off the engine like I suggested it could work for a fairly reasonable cost.

Not sure how I would run one off a serpentine belt setup.
Thought about the gearing a little. Maybe an exhaust cut out and only send partial exhaust to the turbo?

 

[kbenz]

how about something like this? https://www.amazon.com/BEMONOC-Small-Torque-Geared-Reducer/dp/B01D17B5BQ

 

[subway]

how about something like this? https://www.amazon.com/BEMONOC-Small-Torque-Geared-Reducer/dp/B01D17B5BQ

is that to drive a gear pump? I don't think that will be strong enough at all. It is only rated for about .6 ftlb of torque. I also doubt that it is a constant duty rated motor, more of a put the window up and down a few times duty cycle.

I could be wrong, it happens fairly regularly lol

 

[kbenz]

is that to drive a gear pump? I don't think that will be strong enough at all. It is only rated for about .6 ftlb of torque. I also doubt that it is a constant duty rated motor, more of a put the window up and down a few times duty cycle.

I could be wrong, it happens fairly regularly lol

I was thinking to turn the power steering pump