Further Adventures of Henry the Hydrogen Ford...

BioFarmer93

OPEC Hater
Joined
Sep 19, 2009
Posts
692
Reaction score
31
Location
Jacksonville, Florida
Ummm, ah... Not to be a dork or anything, but either both of you guys are wrong or the info I looked up is wrong- supposedly the expansion factor is 1800%. But no matter, anyway you slice it, that's a lot of expansion. Now please excuse me, I have to go back outside and finish up, just taking a cool down break.:D
 

subway

be nice to the admin :D
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Posts
6,543
Reaction score
1,041
Location
York PA
i used wikipedia real quick to look it up so i am probubly wrongLOL
 

seawalkersee

It needs a turbo...
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Posts
1,467
Reaction score
1
Location
KCMO
What are those nozzles? How did you measure the flow rate? What is your activation method? Do you have a hobbs switch or something? Are you going to install a turbo? If you do, can you throw one of those between the turbo outlet and the intake or will it push the pressure back into the pump? Where did you get your pump?

SWS
 

seawalkersee

It needs a turbo...
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Posts
1,467
Reaction score
1
Location
KCMO
Did anyone see the Smokey Unick article in Hot Rod or Car Craft about the Poncho that used steam to control the cyl pressure and temps? I read it a few times trying to figure out how they controlled it. Ran it through the exhaust and through the turbo to make it warm, and then sprayed the steam below the carb into the intake.

SWS
 

BioFarmer93

OPEC Hater
Joined
Sep 19, 2009
Posts
692
Reaction score
31
Location
Jacksonville, Florida
@SWS-
(1)
Those are misting nozzles for greenhouses, I got two @ .012" and two @ .008".I see now after 500 miles that I easily could have gone with three @.018" and not over-injected.

(2)
I didn't measure the flow rate, I took the manufacturers word for their rating.

(3)
My activation method is a toggle switch zip-tied to my stick shift, just under the knob so I can reach it with my bird finger to toggle it on or off.

(4)
No, I don't have a Hobbs switch (what is a Hobbs switch?)

(5)
No, I do not see a turbo in my near future, however I will not rule out the possibility somewhere farther down the road.

(6)
Yes, as a matter of fact it HAS to go post-impeller to avoid eroding the impeller and causing a sudden disastrous de-centralization of turbo parts.

(7)
Minimum (cheap) pump pressure will be about 45psi. Intermediate level pumps like mine can make around 70psi, cost $65-$100, and are made for agricultural spraying of Round-up or fertilizer & insecticide. Expensive dedicated injection system pumps make 150-200psi, and if you are going to go that route be ready to shell out about $1300 for one of the big name water-**** injection systems. Pressure is not as important as the big names would have you believe to achieve your target flow rate and atomization is VERY important. You want to keep the droplet size as small as possible and that is more a function of nozzle size than pressure but the pressure has to be sufficient to atomize the water properly at the nozzle size you have selected. Just gang more nozzles to achieve the desired flow rate -No circular logic intended.

(8)
No, turbo boost pressure can not force the water back into the water line- Our turbo's make what, 15psi? Minimum acceptable water pressure is 45psi. That is a 30psi advantage right there.

(9)
I got this pump at Northern Tool's.
 

Agnem

Using the Force!
Joined
Jan 10, 2005
Posts
17,067
Reaction score
385
Location
Delta, PA
Last edited:

BioFarmer93

OPEC Hater
Joined
Sep 19, 2009
Posts
692
Reaction score
31
Location
Jacksonville, Florida
Mel, my grandfather Gus was an engineer on the Seaboard Coast Line in the 1930's, 40's and early 50's. He told my dad at one point that water wasn't anything but "dynamite in a bucket" and then explained to him about steam pressure & expansion. Upon receiving that typical teenager's look that says "what the hell are you talkin' about, dad?" grandad then related a story or two similar to the ones you provided links for... It must have made an impression on him, because the power of steam is one of the earliest practical physics lessons I ever learned from my father.
 

opusd2

Full Access Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2008
Posts
1,528
Reaction score
5
Location
BFE, WI
I've seen some nasty things on under serviced commercial boilers when I was doing the big jobs yet. A HUGE hospital boiler with some bad safeties spread out over a few rooms comes to mind... Even some residential ones have enough pressure and fluid behind them to do some damage, although I am glad I never had to deal with that. The worst I ever saw on that scale were some boilers that combined with a few decades of use had split a feed pipe in a crawlspace basement.

Steam and water under pressure will do some nasty things, like peel skin off. When I was 20 or 21, I had a radiator hose come off of a car I was popping the hood on. It left me with some pretty interesting burns and even more interesting scars. I can't believe I ever got into doing HVAC after that, or even working on running engines because I sure as hell can't stand the smell of antifreeze anymore. I don't even WANT to think about the huge steam boilers from the turn of the 20th century, but I am willing to bet they will still outlast anything constructed now.
 

subway

be nice to the admin :D
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Posts
6,543
Reaction score
1,041
Location
York PA
want to see some cool stuff with water expansion watch the mythbusters water heater episode. they plug the safty valve and keep the heating element on, the water heater launches itself high enough it takes about 30 secounds to come back down, blew there makeshoft house to pieces.
 

WrickM

Full Access Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Posts
519
Reaction score
1
Location
Richmond VA
BioF a hobbs switch is a pressure switch a lot of turbo'ed injection systems use to activate at specific boost levels. Not much use to you on your NA setup as it is not vacuum actuated and vacuum would be a good actuating event even if it was. That's what it is though ;)
 

seawalkersee

It needs a turbo...
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Posts
1,467
Reaction score
1
Location
KCMO
BioF a hobbs switch is a pressure switch a lot of turbo'ed injection systems use to activate at specific boost levels. Not much use to you on your NA setup as it is not vacuum actuated and vacuum would be a good actuating event even if it was. That's what it is though ;)

Beat me to it...I keep thinking he is forced induction.

SWS
 

WrickM

Full Access Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Posts
519
Reaction score
1
Location
Richmond VA
well it's weds and the big test for his system was supposed to be tuesday, so where are the results?? :D Oh and unless oyu are thinking about making kits for sale can you provide a link or a name model number for the pump you chose?
 

BioFarmer93

OPEC Hater
Joined
Sep 19, 2009
Posts
692
Reaction score
31
Location
Jacksonville, Florida
Results are in!!! ....I should have used a filter in there somewhere:frustrate The nozzles clogged shortly after leaving to come home Monday. I see now that I need a pressure relief valve in there somewhere also so I can turn the system off and immediately relieve the backpressure, maybe even an elec. operated one that goes open when power is off to the pump. Initially the spray was good for a tiny bit of cooling as observed on my regular temp gauge, but barely a needles width. I can also see that I was VERY conservative on the amount that I was spraying, running two .012"s and one .008", the mileage results were marginaly improved, I got a flat 16mpg on the way down driving 60 & 65mph, no HHO, just ram air and water/alcohal injection. The HHO system is still in the middle of a rebuild/upgrade. I have a friend that is holding a set of turbo heads for me. I am going to take them to the diesel place that I use and have them drop the valves for me so I can do a little port work. I did this with my Harley many, many moons ago and the difference was immediately apparent, and I believe I have even read here that letting an idi breathe better is one of the best things you can do for it as far as power and economy. I will be getting a baby Moose in the next two or three weeks, and have already installed new "BB" code injectors last week. Next on the agenda will be the exhaust system, and I have not decided yet what I want to do with that.
 

WrickM

Full Access Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Posts
519
Reaction score
1
Location
Richmond VA
running just water or washer fluid? when oyu say regular temp guage do you mean engine temp or your EGT gauge? You gotta stop modifying your engine long enough to establish results lol do oyu have the model of the pump you chose?
 

77f250diesel

Full Access Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Posts
285
Reaction score
19
Location
Florida
It should be pointed out that BioFarmers results are with a bad ip, no advance/retard, it's stuck at 10 deg. no matter the rpm..

Dennis
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
92,929
Posts
1,155,109
Members
26,430
Latest member
Brownlee5212
Top