Fluid chnage in E4OD throws a code!

[BDCarrillo]

Let's think like the TCM in fourth for a moment:

FIPL input must be above idle to lock converter
Upon lock command monitor Tach and VSS
Use Tach for input RPM
Calculate internal trans gearing to figure output RPM based on VSS
Compare Input and Output RPM, must match within 50-100 RPM or throw code 62.

At this point I'd look from the sensors toward the tcm to rule out a mechanical issue. VSS and tach signals must be good for the TCM to even figure out if there is slippage.

 

[tbrumm]

Let's think like the TCM in fourth for a moment:

FIPL input must be above idle to lock converter
Upon lock command monitor Tach and VSS
Use Tach for input RPM
Calculate internal trans gearing to figure output RPM based on VSS
Compare Input and Output RPM, must match within 50-100 RPM or throw code 62.

At this point I'd look from the sensors toward the tcm to rule out a mechanical issue. VSS and tach signals must be good for the TCM to even figure out if there is slippage.

I got to thinking about the sensors again. I replaced the tach sensor about 4 years ago when I bought the truck, and it hasn't given any strange reading that I have noticed, but I think I will pull it and clean it anyway. VSS was a new Ford unit a couple of years ago. Now the needle on my speedo "wavers" a bit now and again, but it had always done that so I still think the VSS is okay. TC is still locking and unlocking fine as far as I can tell and no chatter or shudder. Will the TC fail in this manner? Will it start out by not locking every once in a great while, and then not lock more and more often, and eventually really fail? Makes me think I should hook a heavy trailer to the truck and make the TC either "sink or swim"!

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

test the tccs:

http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?70217-Testing-E4OD-Solenoid-Pack-and-Code-referrence

 

[BDCarrillo]

Couple other ideas to toss out there... Did your transmission cooler come with a thermal bypass? I had one in the mustang and it'd trap too much fluid, especially with an external filter. Gave me fits on fluid levels/warming up until I yanked it.

Hydraulic operations require good pressure... did you check the pump output on the E4OD? In theory weak flow, sucking air from the filter grommet, fluid starvation, or a large pressure drop would decrease output. Transmissions need pressure to actuate the clutch packs, and if one slips excessively it could give a code 62.

Have you changed your external bypass filter? Did you open up the old one and look for metal?

Are the various sensor feeds to the tcm in good shape? One good test is to hook up a multimeter/VOM set to continuity with a buzzer on the extreme ends of a circuit, and jiggle/shake/manipulate. Any intermittent sound from the VOM might indicate a wire breakage somewhere.

Do the RPMs flash up a bit in the middle of a shift?

I can't speak to the tcc lockup clutch failure behavior.

 

[tbrumm]

BDCarrillo: The B&M Supercooler I have has been in the truck almost 4 years now and was never a problem before. Supposedly, the cooler is somewhat "self-regulating" in that when the fluid is cold and the viscosity is "thicker" it does not flow through the plates, but when the fluid warms up and "thins", more of it flows through the plates and is cooled down. I did not cut open the bypass filter when I just recently changed it, so I don't know how much debris may have been in there - the old filter is long gone too. As far as the sensor feeds go, I will be checking into those in more detail soon. Of course, we are talking about 20 year old wires and connectors. I have a digital multimeter, but no sound, but I will be doing some continuity checks with that and see if I find anything. My next purchase will probably be a repair harness for the solenoid connector on the harness to runs some some checks as suggested by FORDF250HDXLT above. The past couple of days the trans has worked fine (yeah - I know I just jinxed myself by saying that). There has not been a flash up of rpm's in the middle of any shifts that I have noticed. Not sure how to check the pump output - that test could probably tell a lot right there. Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[tbrumm]

Well Guys, I got another week of driving without a code until tonight. I was headed up a hill at bout 60 and the trans downshifted about 1/2 way up the hill and on came the light. I wasn't really giving it much throttle - it was just time for it to downshift due to the grade. No problems with the downshift and no problems with the upshift after I topped the hill. Still code 62. I really appreciate the help you guys have offered and I certainly don't expect you guys to come up with answers for me every time I post - just want to keep the thread updated. I did pull the tach sensor and cleaned it off yesterday, but it was not all that dirty and the tach has been acting fine. I will continue to work on trouble shooting this issue, but it takes me a while, especially when the trans is working okay for most of the time (so far anyway). Guess I will get my repair connector ordered so I can test the TCCS.

 

[BDCarrillo]

So high load in fourth with TC locked... downshift kicked off the code? That would correlate to a code 62 slip detected... maybe time to suspect your converter, or something deeper. It may lock and unlock fine on a flat road, but on a hill under load... just saying that if you've eliminated all other possibilities, code 62 directly relates to the converter. If it were clutch packs you'd see a flash in RPM during shifts as they slip.

That is assuming adequate hydraulic pressure to engage the lockup clutch.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

So high load in fourth with TC locked... downshift kicked off the code? That would correlate to a code 62 slip detected... maybe time to suspect your converter, or something deeper. It may lock and unlock fine on a flat road, but on a hill under load... just saying that if you've eliminated all other possibilities, code 62 directly relates to the converter. If it were clutch packs you'd see a flash in RPM during shifts as they slip.

That is assuming adequate hydraulic pressure to engage the lockup clutch.

he's not that far just yet.he has at to test two important things first;
1.that the TECA is in fact commanding the converter to lock when it should
(in this case here,the teca will command an unlock,the trans will downshift into 3rd,then command converter to lock back up.)
also keep it mind,right then and there when it didn't lock back up,or the teca didn't see that it did (if it did,and it sounds like it did) this means it wasn't the first time it didn't get the return signal to say; hey i didn't lock up when you told me too. because the teca needs to see a few "issues" with the converter not locking before it tosses 62.

2.he hasn't yet tested the solenoid.

it sounds as if the converter itself is working correctly.what it appears to be,is that teca for some reason doesn't know the converter is not slipping.i trust the driver more than the tcm.you can feel a good converter and lockup operation.when its not working right,you'll know it.

 

[tbrumm]

2.he hasn't yet tested the solenoid.

I ordered the solenoid plug harness last night, so testing the solenoid pack is next on my list when the harness arrives.

I thought I had read that the light will not be activated by the TCM until the problem has occurred several times. So, the light came on after the downshift because the problem had occurred again and had now reached the TCM's "magic" number of total events allowed. The problem continues to happen "every once in a while" even though the light does not come on immediately.

 

[BDCarrillo]

I agree on the need for further electrical testing, my point was that if all other avenues check out as good, the converter itself may be the issue.

 

[trackspeeder]

In general when the converter is getting tired it will slip under load.
A quick lock and unlock will trip a code 62. Does it mean its shot.. No, but its time to think about it before it chatters.

Before you go this route, finish checking your electronics.

 

[tbrumm]

Thanks for all your good suggestions and comments, gentlemen. I agree that the converter's time may be running out. I can hope all I want, but given that there is 93k on the clock (even though it has had proper maintenance and a big cooler), and the fact that the factory converter is less than awesome to begin with, I am not fooling myself. But, I also do not want that code 62 coming back if/when I have to have the converter changed out. That would be disappointing!

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

exactly.it sure would.

 

[tbrumm]

The solenoid connector repair harness has shipped and should be here in a few days. On the way home tonight, I was going up a hill and not really giving it much throttle has I had built up some speed before the hill. About half way up, the light started flashing. The trans had not downshifted, no change in rpm's on the tach that I noticed, no shudder. I know the TCM has already detected and stored other "events" in order to set off the light at this time, and this was the last event needed to make the "quota" and trigger the light. I just find it odd that the TCM will detect a slip in this situation when I am not giving a lot of throttle as opposed to not detecting a slip when I have the throttle wide open pulling a hill. I am just thinking more and more that the torque converter is the culprit and is just starting to fail, since there is not chatter or shudder. You guys already know the question I am going to ask if my testing shows the TCCS to be fine: What TC would you guys recommend to balance cost with reasonably robust operation? I only very rarely tow something heavy (like a bobcat maybe once a year) and for only short distances, and only haul loads in the truck sporadically (loads of topsoil, firewood, lumber, etc.). Usually the truck just runs empty back and forth to work. I can't see spending $800 or more on a TC for that type of use, but around $400 - 500 could be doable.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

i spent $ on a good racerx converter then latter when the trans lost OD,the trans shop didn't want anything to do with the converter at that time and the cost of a new converter (same grade/specs) was installed.
i learned my lesson.only buy a high grade,triple disc,extra low stall converter when you reman the trans.so with log truck,when i was fixing up the worn pump,i used one with a 3 yr warranty from ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/E4OD-7-3L-6...FACTURED-/251374144680?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

keep in mind,with 5.13 gearing the gears take massive amounts of stress off the engine and trans (like riding a 10 speed.shift to those low gears and they make pedaling super,super easy.) making this a very simple decision.based on your plans with your truck id use it too without a second thought.