Flatbed truck legal battle!

[Pele]

I never wanted to live in an area with an HOA... I thought that by getting my place without one, I'd be safe... Turns out I was wrong. Pissed off neighbors can still wreak havoc on one's day.



So here's a picture of my truck...

Originally a Pickup, the VIN traces back to a standard F350 Crew Cab Style Side DRW truck. VIN and registration still retain the original GVWR of 10,000 lbs.

Bed removed, Frame extended with C-Channel and a stick welder, and diamond plate sheet steel added back on as the bed. Bed is FIXED in place, welded directly to the frame, and there are no hydraulic mechanisms on the truck to move the bed...

Additionally, there is nothing capable of lifting and pulling a vehicle present on the truck (IE a standard wheel lift type wrecker.)

HOWEVER, there ARE ramps to roll things up onto the bed.

Now firstly, I already know that a lot of you are gonna say something about that GVWR. I'll deal with that issue when it comes up. So far, it hasn't come up... And for the purposes of this battle, it's actually helpful to me.


So here's my dilly:

I just got cited by a County Zoning inspector with the following:

(e) Prohibited Vehicles Regardless of Weight. Except as permitted by
section 13-327 of the County Code and subsections (g) and (h) below, the following types of vehicles shall not be parked or stored in any residential district or residential portion of a planned district, or on lots of less than ten (10) acres in agricultural districts:
(1) cement trucks
(2) construction equipment
(3) dump trucks
(4) garbage, refuse or recycling trucks
(5) passenger buses (excluding school buses)
(6) tractors or trailers of a tractor-trailer truck
(7) tow trucks

(f) Prohibited Vehicles. Except as permitted by section 13-327 of the
County Code and subsections (g) and (h) below, the following vehicles registered with the Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles or any other state or government agency as having a gross vehicle weight of ten thousand, one hundred (10,100) pounds or more, shall not be parked or stored in any residential district or residential portion of a planned district, or on lots of less than ten (10) acres in agricultural districts:
(1) box trucks
(2) flat bed trucks
(3) stake bed trucks
(4) step vans
(5) trailers

Being that I've had cars on the back of the truck, I can see how people would regard it as a tow truck...

However:

"Tow truck" means a motor vehicle for hire (i) designed to lift, pull, or carry another vehicle by means of a hoist or other mechanical apparatus and (ii) having a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of at least 10,000 pounds. "Tow truck" also includes vehicles designed with a ramp on wheels and a hydraulic lift with a capacity to haul or tow another vehicle, commonly referred to as "rollbacks." "Tow truck" does not include any "automobile or watercraft transporter," "stinger-steered automobile or watercraft transporter," or "tractor truck" as those terms are defined in this section.

It appears that without the capability to lift and pull a vehicle, IE a standard wheel lift or sling style wrecker; or a hydraulic lift to the bed, IE a rollback; I am NOT a tow truck...

Based on this, I have an "Automotive or Watercraft Transporter".

Furthermore, vehicles in the Commonwealth of Virginia are registered and defined by the Department of Motor Vehicles:

A. No tow truck registered under this section shall be subject to registration under the international registration plan or subject to any other state registration requirements under this chapter. Registration under this section shall not prohibit the use of "rollbacks" to transport storage sheds, similar structures, or other cargoes.

B. Vehicles registered under this section shall be subject to the following annual fees, based upon their manufacturer's gross vehicle weight ratings:



less than 15,000 pounds $100

15,000 to 22,999 pounds $200

23,000 to 29,499 pounds $300

more than 29,499 pounds $400

C. No vehicle shall be registered under this section unless there is in force as to such vehicle at the time of its registration commercial liability insurance coverage for those classes of insurance defined in §§ 38.2-117 and 38.2-118 in the amount of at least $750,000.

My truck was NOT registered as a Tow Truck through the DMV under this section. Therefore it is not a tow truck.

Prince William County Code section lists this as well:

Commercial vehicles defined. For the purposes of this section, a commercial vehicle is defined as any of the following:

(1)

Any solid waste collection vehicle, tractor truck or tractor truck/semitrailer or tractor truck/trailer combination, dump truck, concrete mixer truck, towing and recovery vehicle with a registered gross weight of 12,000 pounds or more, and any heavy construction equipment, whether located on the highway or on a truck, trailer, or semitrailer.

(2)

Any trailer, semitrailer, or other vehicle in which food or beverages are stored or sold.

(3)

Any vehicle licensed by the Commonwealth for use as a common or contract carrier or as a limousine, except one resident of each single-family dwelling unit zoned for residential use may park one vehicle licensed as a taxicab or limousine on such highways, provided other vehicles are permitted to park thereon.

(4)

Any trailer or semitrailer, regardless of whether such trailer or semitrailer is attached to another vehicle.

(5)

Any vehicle with three or more axles.

(6)

Any vehicle that has a gross vehicle weight rating of 12,000 or more pounds.

(7)

Any vehicle designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver.

(8)

Any vehicle of any size that is being used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in Code of Virginia, § 46.2-341.4.

So it isn't a commercial vehicle. It is a personal vehicle. As stated before, it's GVWR is 10,000 lbs based on the registration. I do not use it for business use.


Now as I understand it, State Law, County Code, and Zoning Ordinance are three separate entities. A couple lawyers have told me that I can not use one to fight another.

However, isn't there such a law that states that Local laws can not override State laws, and that State laws can not override federal laws?

Another interesting thing is that the Zoning Ordinance does NOT define "Tow Truck" nor "Automotive or Watercraft Transporter"

The inspector that I've been dealing with has already decided that it's a tow truck and he said that once he decides, that's final and I'd have to go through administrative or legal action to appeal it.


Does anyone here think I have a good case? Has anyone had to do the same crap for their truck, RV, or whatever?

 

[spg]

Looks like you have done your homework. I am not a lawyer but I would think the legal system would use the BMV definitions for what type of vehicle it is. Based on what information you provided I don't think you are breaking the zoning laws. But you may have to go to court to prove it. Most likely a neighbor has complained. That is what starts most zoning cases.

 

[George_7.3IDI]

hmm... figure out which neighbor it was and permanently attach a junk trailer with a junk winch mounted on it to their vehicle and then file a complaint on them lol... jk. It does seem as though you've got a good case. I wonder if it's possible for you to just wait it out until the inspector takes you to court for lack of payment and then prove that it isn't a tow truck as defined by law.

 

[OLDBULL8]

My 99.5 F350 has a GVWR of 11200# according to the sticker, the certified scale weight (no load or driver) is 7920#. That means I can carry 3280# . All States are different on how they classify the registration, in Ohio I had to register mine as Commercial because of the GVWR.

With your modifications, In would think your at the limit of the trucks GVWR or close.

How are you going to prove that the modifications was not made for hire?

If you go to Court, a Judge is going to make that decision. I think you would lose.
That Zoning Inspector has a lot of power.

They might even say the truck was registered wrong. Registered by truck weight, not by the GVWR.

The County has a retained Attorney, gonna cost you big buc's to fight it.

Sure would like to know how this comes out.

 

[Pele]

I'm not gonna pay big bucks to a lawyer to fight this. If it's decided that I need to get rid of it, I will. But I'm not just gonna do that without exhausting every option that I can take care of personally.

I know the GVWR is wrong. But for the purposes of this battle, I'm just using it to pick plywood from Home Depot, sheet by sheet.
Empty weight is 9500 lbs according to the scrap metal scale... So unloaded, it's within limits.

 

[MeanGreen]

Pele,
I'm in VA also. Your county was more than willing to take your check for the personal property tax bill for the last few years, I'm sure. Tell them, you'll move it out of the county if they refund your property tax for the last x-number of years.......if it was illegal to have it housed there, then it was illegal for them to collect property tax on it......as far as I'm concerned anyway. I'm sure the law reads different!
I feel for ya, being in Northern Va for the last 8-9 years, I've had 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks and if you read different bylaws even a 3/4 ton truck is considered a commercial vehicle, but then another section of the law contradicts that. These law makers have no idea of what they are talking about...all they know is that the gas station attendent puts gas in their BMW or Lexus....beyond that, they don't have a clue about vehicles.
I love the signs in town that say no thru trucks over 7500 GVWR. The new F150 supercrew has a GVWR of 7700!
Sorry, not really any help, just venting a little as well. I wish you the best of luck with your truck, neighbors and the law.
Jerry

 

[Agnem]

I hate this kind of Northern VA B.S. which is designed by people with BMW's to keep their BMW's from looking bad sitting in the driveway next to your "creature from the black lagoon" as they would call it. Any place that does this crap needs to be fought. You may not win, but they will get tired of trying these cases and either change the law, or give up prosecuting it. I would involve your local TV station, ACLU, SEMA and anybody else who might have a stake in this and raise hell about it. If nothing else, you will go down swinging, and draw attention to how inefficient and messed up the government is. This the kind of bull crap I'd expect to have to deal with at Penn Dot. That A-hole times square Nissan driver parked his riceobamabomb in front of the wrong buildings!

 

[Russ]

Not sure about VA, but did the truck(by VA Law) have to have a reconstructed title after the frame was stretched? If so you might be in violation on that fact. But from the info you provided here, looks like you would have a case.

 

[bird hunter]

Whoa, whats the turning radius on that rig??!! Anyways, good luck with your case man, I think you have a fair chance at least. You might also want to find out who that neighbor is though...

 

[jet1]

Pele

Sorry Pele - If that thing was parked near my house, I'd complain too!

 

[OLDBULL8]

Paint the damn deck Pink.

I'm not gonna pay big bucks to a lawyer to fight this. If it's decided that I need to get rid of it, I will. But I'm not just gonna do that without exhausting every option that I can take care of personally.

I was just giving you my thought's on what could happen.

I know the GVWR is wrong. But for the purposes of this battle, I'm just using it to pick plywood from Home Depot, sheet by sheet.
Empty weight is 9500 lbs according to the scrap metal scale... So unloaded, it's within limits.

Your getting the GVW and GVWR mixed up. Your 9500# is the GVW. The GVWR is the 11,200# maximum load rating. " So unloaded it's within limit's" NO IT IS NOT, if they register by GVWR.

 

[OLDBULL8]

Read this, it's a little confusing, but.

Whether you're hauling for hire or not has no bearing on the CDL requirements. FMCSA defines a Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV) Commercial motor vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle:

(1) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating, or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg (10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater; or

(2) Is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers (including the driver) for compensation; or

(3) Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, and is not used to transport passengers for compensation; or

(4) Is used in transporting material found by the Secretary of Transportation to be hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and transported in a quantity requiring placarding under regulations prescribed by the Secretary under 49 CFR, subtitle B, chapter I, subchapter C.

Drivers have been required to have a CDL in order to drive a CMV since April 1, 1992.

The Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) has developed and issued standards for testing and licensing CMV drivers. Among other things, the standards require States to issue CDLs to their CMV drivers only after the driver passes knowledge and skills tests administered by the State related to the type of vehicle to be operated. Drivers need CDLs if they are in interstate, intrastate, or foreign commerce and drive a vehicle that meets one of the following definitions of a CMV:

Classes of License:
The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:
Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.
Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is placarded for hazardous materials.

ARIZONA CDL REQUIREMENTS:
A CDL is a commercial driver's license. Like a normal license for passenger vehicles, commercial licenses are issued by the Arizona Department of Transportation's Motor Vehicles Division (MVD). The following vehicles require you to have a CDL in order to operate them:

If you will drive a combination vehicle (truck and trailer) whose trailer has a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 10,001 pounds or more and whose total weight with the truck is 26,001 pounds or more, you will need a Class A CDL.
If you will drive a vehicle whose GVWR is 26,001 pounds or more, you will need a Class B CDL. With this license, you can also tow a trailer whose weight does not exceed 10,000 pounds.
If you will transport hazardous materials or more than 15 people (including the driver) in a vehicle whose GVWR is 26,000 pounds or less, you will need a Class C CDL.

The CDL test must be taken in a vehicle or combination of vehicles representative of the ones you'll operate. Yes, you can take your CDL road test in your combination.


Unfortunately, even though you were hauling your own product, you would still be considered to be operating in interstate commerce and operating a CMV.

 

[Freight_Train]

Here is what you do....Go over to Ebay and buy a set of these.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NOT-...em&pt=Other_Vehicle_Parts&hash=item33568f3678

Install one on each door and they cannot touch you by the law.Because the main of a tow truck is "FOR HIRE" plus the other stuff.You can have a truck with a hoist,Lift,ramps,etc etc as long as it is NOT FOR HIRE.That is how I drive a 1980 GMC General 18 wheeler(in my signature) without a CDL,Log book,DOT health card,etc.I have it posted on the door along with my fake company name NOT FOR HIRE.

 

[MeanGreen]

OLDBULL,
I'd like to make a correction to what you said. You said whether you are for hire or not has no bearing on the definition of commercial vehicle, but re-read what you posted:
"Whether you're hauling for hire or not has no bearing on the CDL requirements. FMCSA defines a Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV) Commercial motor vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers or property when the vehicle:"

Notice your statement says "used on a highway IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE to transport....."

Interstate commerce is running a business, making money, etc. Otherwise anyone with a F350 with a GVWR of 10,001+ would have to have a commercial license which is not the case. You can have a "regular" license up to 26,000.......as indicated by the 3 classes of commercial licenses listed.
Just wanted to clear this up.
Jerry

 

[OLDBULL8]

MeanGreen
Those are not my words: That was advice from a lawyer that deals in interstate/intrastate commerce to some one who wanted to know if he had to have a CDL. Wether it's right or wrong I have no idea. I got this a couple of years ago off the internet when someone on the TDS was wondering if he had to have a CDL.Don't remember what state he was from, but he couldn't get any positive answer from his state officials. Take note that is FMCSA defination. As I said, it's confusing.

In Ohio, all 3 of my F-350 are registered as commercial according to Ohio law, because they have a GVWR over 10,001#, wether I use them for commercial or not, I never have had a CDL of any kind. Even my 25 ft. GN had to be registered as commercial due to GVWR of 14.000#.

I think I was questioning how he registered his F-350 with a GVWR of 12,200# and registered it under 10,000# . I think the registar in VA screwed up.