eliminating lift pump!!!!
- Thread starter Tinman875
- Start date
BoomerHauler
Registered User
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
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Hi, new to the forum.
I have an 98.5 and have already lost one pump and was lucky enough to be under extended warranty. They replaced the injector pump as well.
Now that I am out of warranty it needs to be done now!
Any installation sematics and directions available?
Does this marine grade fuel pump(aeromotive) have a longer history of service than the FASS?
Oh ya, need to put the fuel pressure gauge in as well.
Thanks
I have an 98.5 and have already lost one pump and was lucky enough to be under extended warranty. They replaced the injector pump as well.
Now that I am out of warranty it needs to be done now!
Any installation sematics and directions available?
Does this marine grade fuel pump(aeromotive) have a longer history of service than the FASS?
Oh ya, need to put the fuel pressure gauge in as well.
Thanks
I don't know of anyone that's actually tested THIS marine Aeromotive pump.
However, Chris Sutton has ****** the A1000 Aeromotive pump and it has been flawless for over 3 years.
For the record, the Marine pump is supposed to be even better than the A1000. The Marine pump has tougher internals, and it's DIESEL RATED.
It's also expensive, though.
jlh
However, Chris Sutton has ****** the A1000 Aeromotive pump and it has been flawless for over 3 years.
For the record, the Marine pump is supposed to be even better than the A1000. The Marine pump has tougher internals, and it's DIESEL RATED.
It's also expensive, though.
jlh
Fishin2Deep4U
Full Access Member
My fuel system has finally surpassed ANY electric pump I have ever had on my truck.
And it's all mechanical. I pesonnaly would not waste my money on an electric pump. Go with the RASP or put a cam in it. PERIOD.
Dave
And it's all mechanical. I pesonnaly would not waste my money on an electric pump. Go with the RASP or put a cam in it. PERIOD.
Dave
Whit
Registered User
Here is a tech article I wrote with another alternative of the lift pump woes, it goes in phases so you can decide how far you want to take it pending your setup
Cheers, Kevin
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From 98.5 to 2002 the Cummins 5.9 has an OEM (original equipment manufacturer) lift pump #3990105 mounted on the drivers side of the block, The track record of the OEM pump on these models is poor.............very poor, I consider this OEM setup to be completly out of wack and often wonder what the heck Dodge/Cummins was thinking. The problem is that if the lift pump fails ..........not if but when is more like it, then the VP-44 injection pump will lose its cooling and lubricity that 70% of the lift pump duties are. A failed 150 dollor lift pump will most likely result in a code of PO181 Fuel injection pump failure at the cost of a bit over a grand if you do all the maintenance work. Thie Lift pump is expected to pull fuel from up to 10 feet away and also lift it about 20 " by my measurments, I can tell you that NO pump likes to operate at a vacuum and the end result will be death of the pump. I can also tell you that 27" of water column makes a pound so do the math here and you will understand what this pump is going thru and inturn understand why it doesnt seam to last long. Many have done their own R and D (research and development) to better the system, some have done OK but in the end the results arent much different. I have a fix of somewhat that worked for me for a few years that I am willing to share, this fix is not to spendy and the proven pressure results are much better then the OEM numbers, SO go to you local Cummins store and get an electrical pigtail for lift pump #3990105, for about 8 bucks, I am sure the Dodge dealer could get one but at a much higher price. Now this pigtail is about 4" long and plugs into the lift pump on one end ans the feed wire from the ECM on the other, OK now get some dirty close on cuz diesel stinks and you will get it on you before this is over, The Lift pump is located on the block, drivers side just under the fuel filter, Remove the fuel line banjo bolts (dont loose the gaskets)going into and out of the lift pump, there are 3 nuts on the bracket holding the lift pump on, use a 10mm wrench and take them off, also unplug the wireing, LEAVE THE BRACKET THERE, it has a gasket on the back side and if this bracket is removed you have an open crankcase. Now the original lift pump will need to be mounted on the frame rail back by the fuel tank so you have to fab up a bracket in an "L" shape so the pump can hang from the top of the L just like the old bracket, once the bracket is mounted and the pump is hanging you need to hook up the inlet and outlet fuel lines, This requires a bit of imagination but what I did was to get some metric hose barb fittings so one could simply cut the OEM fuel line and splice the barb fitting in there, Do the same for both inlet and outlet. Now the pigtail come to play, the new one you bought cut it in half, splice the pump end of the wiring in with long wires and make sure to use butt connectors and shrick tube to ge a good seal on the wireing, plug into the pump and run the wiring up to the original lift pump location where you will cut cut the wires to length and splice on the other end of the pigtail and plug it into its original wiring, NOW with this done the ECM will tell the pump to run just as it always did. The result will be now that you have better fuel psi and alot better WOT (wide open throttle) psi as well.
Phase 2 of this mod
Do same as above with the exception of ordering a fuel line kit consisting of all needed fuel line (Bigger too) and all needed fittings . This will also have a new pickup for inside the tank, a definate plus.
Phase 3 of this mod
Buy an inbed tank and plumb from it to the suction side of the lift pump................Whats that you say??? If there is fuel ABOVE the lift pump then the pump wont have to lift fuel anymore??? Thats right, rember 27" of water column makes a pound of pressure, yep thats right with a full tank of fuel in my bed tank I show a bit better that a pound of pressure with the pump OFF. Keep in mind that the fuel return line will now have to be relocated to flow into the inbed tank as well. Its also nice to have a level gauge in the cab so you can see what you got. Piece of cake.
Phase 4 of this mod
Now you have a totally worthless fuel tank under the truck thats not in use.........OH I have an Idea lets use it for storage and transfer the fuel as needed at a flip of the switch, cool idea and works so well.
Final phase of this mod
Use the OEM lift pump as a transfer pump from OEM tank to inbed tank and install a FASSII on the frame rail, The FASSII will recieve the OEM wiring from the ECM and the OEM lift pump will need new wiring and a switch in the cab.
Remeber this...........you cant have any fun ifin yer scared.
Cheers, Kevin
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From 98.5 to 2002 the Cummins 5.9 has an OEM (original equipment manufacturer) lift pump #3990105 mounted on the drivers side of the block, The track record of the OEM pump on these models is poor.............very poor, I consider this OEM setup to be completly out of wack and often wonder what the heck Dodge/Cummins was thinking. The problem is that if the lift pump fails ..........not if but when is more like it, then the VP-44 injection pump will lose its cooling and lubricity that 70% of the lift pump duties are. A failed 150 dollor lift pump will most likely result in a code of PO181 Fuel injection pump failure at the cost of a bit over a grand if you do all the maintenance work. Thie Lift pump is expected to pull fuel from up to 10 feet away and also lift it about 20 " by my measurments, I can tell you that NO pump likes to operate at a vacuum and the end result will be death of the pump. I can also tell you that 27" of water column makes a pound so do the math here and you will understand what this pump is going thru and inturn understand why it doesnt seam to last long. Many have done their own R and D (research and development) to better the system, some have done OK but in the end the results arent much different. I have a fix of somewhat that worked for me for a few years that I am willing to share, this fix is not to spendy and the proven pressure results are much better then the OEM numbers, SO go to you local Cummins store and get an electrical pigtail for lift pump #3990105, for about 8 bucks, I am sure the Dodge dealer could get one but at a much higher price. Now this pigtail is about 4" long and plugs into the lift pump on one end ans the feed wire from the ECM on the other, OK now get some dirty close on cuz diesel stinks and you will get it on you before this is over, The Lift pump is located on the block, drivers side just under the fuel filter, Remove the fuel line banjo bolts (dont loose the gaskets)going into and out of the lift pump, there are 3 nuts on the bracket holding the lift pump on, use a 10mm wrench and take them off, also unplug the wireing, LEAVE THE BRACKET THERE, it has a gasket on the back side and if this bracket is removed you have an open crankcase. Now the original lift pump will need to be mounted on the frame rail back by the fuel tank so you have to fab up a bracket in an "L" shape so the pump can hang from the top of the L just like the old bracket, once the bracket is mounted and the pump is hanging you need to hook up the inlet and outlet fuel lines, This requires a bit of imagination but what I did was to get some metric hose barb fittings so one could simply cut the OEM fuel line and splice the barb fitting in there, Do the same for both inlet and outlet. Now the pigtail come to play, the new one you bought cut it in half, splice the pump end of the wiring in with long wires and make sure to use butt connectors and shrick tube to ge a good seal on the wireing, plug into the pump and run the wiring up to the original lift pump location where you will cut cut the wires to length and splice on the other end of the pigtail and plug it into its original wiring, NOW with this done the ECM will tell the pump to run just as it always did. The result will be now that you have better fuel psi and alot better WOT (wide open throttle) psi as well.
Phase 2 of this mod
Do same as above with the exception of ordering a fuel line kit consisting of all needed fuel line (Bigger too) and all needed fittings . This will also have a new pickup for inside the tank, a definate plus.
Phase 3 of this mod
Buy an inbed tank and plumb from it to the suction side of the lift pump................Whats that you say??? If there is fuel ABOVE the lift pump then the pump wont have to lift fuel anymore??? Thats right, rember 27" of water column makes a pound of pressure, yep thats right with a full tank of fuel in my bed tank I show a bit better that a pound of pressure with the pump OFF. Keep in mind that the fuel return line will now have to be relocated to flow into the inbed tank as well. Its also nice to have a level gauge in the cab so you can see what you got. Piece of cake.
Phase 4 of this mod
Now you have a totally worthless fuel tank under the truck thats not in use.........OH I have an Idea lets use it for storage and transfer the fuel as needed at a flip of the switch, cool idea and works so well.
Final phase of this mod
Use the OEM lift pump as a transfer pump from OEM tank to inbed tank and install a FASSII on the frame rail, The FASSII will recieve the OEM wiring from the ECM and the OEM lift pump will need new wiring and a switch in the cab.
Remeber this...........you cant have any fun ifin yer scared.
cdennyb
Full Access Member
here's a cheaper alternative if you have some
Just hang a couple of Holley black pumps under there and wire it to the stock Lift Pump. At 149 Gph free flow @ 15 psi, you'll be fine. Cut the existing tubing with a tubing cutter, not a cutoff wheel, and bend the line slightly to intersect the rubber hose. Cap off the tubing and leave it hanging in the line clamps for later on when and if you ever need to hook it back up.
Then attach the rubber line with the hose clamps and use a Tee Tap electrical fitting with 12 ga wiring thru the existing wire loom down there and tie in to the stock pump wire. It'll turn them on and off with the stock pump and the stock pump won't have to work so hard and go south so quick.
That's what I did, make your own decisions.
Just hang a couple of Holley black pumps under there and wire it to the stock Lift Pump. At 149 Gph free flow @ 15 psi, you'll be fine. Cut the existing tubing with a tubing cutter, not a cutoff wheel, and bend the line slightly to intersect the rubber hose. Cap off the tubing and leave it hanging in the line clamps for later on when and if you ever need to hook it back up.
Then attach the rubber line with the hose clamps and use a Tee Tap electrical fitting with 12 ga wiring thru the existing wire loom down there and tie in to the stock pump wire. It'll turn them on and off with the stock pump and the stock pump won't have to work so hard and go south so quick.
That's what I did, make your own decisions.
Attachments
haz-mat19
Full Access Member
Just got my fass installed last week. So far 20 at idle and 17 at WOT 
. So far so good. See ya 
. So far so good. See ya 
Mopar1973Man
Full Access Member
I know there has been a lot said about Carter pumps... But when you can buy a Carter Campaign pump for about $50 buck why not...
I'm running a Carter Campaign pump and vulcan big line kit. So far the pressures are wonderful till the pump started to slip abit... But still pumping 13 PSI for the most part...
Now what I replace my pump it won't cost me 100,200, or 300 dollars just a mere 50 bucks...
Part number in my signature...
I'm running a Carter Campaign pump and vulcan big line kit. So far the pressures are wonderful till the pump started to slip abit... But still pumping 13 PSI for the most part...
Now what I replace my pump it won't cost me 100,200, or 300 dollars just a mere 50 bucks...
Part number in my signature...
Just a question here and pardon my ignorance here as I haven't looked real close at teh LP and how it is fixed to the engine, but couldn't you just bypass it and leave it there hanging on the engine??? Or would you have to pull it off and get a blockoff plate??
cdennyb
Full Access Member
the twin holleys shown above...
I know everyone wants to run the latest, greatest, trick cool stuff they see in the ad brochures, and the magazines, and everyone wants what the Jones' down the street got, but the numbers from all these high dollar pump/filter systems aren't as good as my two old black pump holleys in series with the stock L.P..
For less than $200 I put together the twins you see in my post above and under full load with the Banks system (with speedloader) set on KILL #6 I see it drop to about 22-26 psi and that runs my turbo up to the 35-40 psi range.
Not bad for a couple of Holley Black pumps rated at 148 GPH ea. (also...no regulator in there either, just let 'em flow free right thru the stock pump. Takes the load of it as well and keeps the system from running dry on startup.)
db
I know everyone wants to run the latest, greatest, trick cool stuff they see in the ad brochures, and the magazines, and everyone wants what the Jones' down the street got, but the numbers from all these high dollar pump/filter systems aren't as good as my two old black pump holleys in series with the stock L.P..
For less than $200 I put together the twins you see in my post above and under full load with the Banks system (with speedloader) set on KILL #6 I see it drop to about 22-26 psi and that runs my turbo up to the 35-40 psi range.
Not bad for a couple of Holley Black pumps rated at 148 GPH ea. (also...no regulator in there either, just let 'em flow free right thru the stock pump. Takes the load of it as well and keeps the system from running dry on startup.)
db
BTowler
Short bus driver
I would suggest a Glacier Diesel GFS-392. My stock went out, got a Carter which lasted less than a year, then got the 392, which is quiet, keeps 19-20 psi at idle and has never dropped below 14psi. The kit is top notch, customer service is some of the best I have ever seen, and the price is not too bad. Talk to Rich at Glacier Diesel Power. www.glacierdieselpower.com
On edit: Depending on how far you want to go with mods you may have to go a different route to get higher flow rates, I am probably just about at the max for the 392.
On edit: Depending on how far you want to go with mods you may have to go a different route to get higher flow rates, I am probably just about at the max for the 392.
Last edited:
BTowler
Short bus driver
Hohn, the A1000 is not rated for diesel, here is what I got from Aeromotive by e-mail.
Although not engineered specifically for diesel fuel, the A1000 is very popular for diesel applications. Based on field reports and limited testing, service live can vary with the amount of pressure required for the system. You can figure roughly 1,000 run hours would be a safe expectation, or more.
Hope this helps, good luck and thanks for choosing Aeromotive!
Brett Clow
Technical Support
Aeromotive, Inc.
7805 Barton St.
Lenexa, KS 66214
913-647-7300 Ext. 109
Roughly 1000 run hours?!?!? No thanks.
Although not engineered specifically for diesel fuel, the A1000 is very popular for diesel applications. Based on field reports and limited testing, service live can vary with the amount of pressure required for the system. You can figure roughly 1,000 run hours would be a safe expectation, or more.
Hope this helps, good luck and thanks for choosing Aeromotive!
Brett Clow
Technical Support
Aeromotive, Inc.
7805 Barton St.
Lenexa, KS 66214
913-647-7300 Ext. 109
Roughly 1000 run hours?!?!? No thanks.
Last edited:
Blue2002
Registered User
Just like Muddy said many of us do carry a spare. I don't trust any lift pump to be 100% fail safe. After I replaced my original Carter out 3 times, Harold installed a Holley 4601 on the frame rail -- it is still going strong. I have not had to use my spare yet. This is one good alternative to the stock pump. Highly recommend that anyone with a 24V have fuel pressure gauges to m monitor the pressure and carry a spare lift pump. Geo
Mopar1973Man
Full Access Member
So far I've got a year on mine and doing good so far... 14 @ idle and 11 @ WOT... Still running my Carter Campaign pump with no problems...
