e4od torque converter shake when locking up

[gushaman]

Ok heres the facts:
when truck is nice and cold, i.e. hasnt been driven in a good few hours, it shifts just perfect. A mile or so after the torque converter starts being able to lock up, it starts shaking HARD whenever it locks it up. I installed and adjusted a new FIPL, and I have it set a little high, so it goes into 3rd about 35mph, and 4th about 43mph or so, instead of 30mph and 40mph, respectively.
Once the shaking begins (it usually starts in 4th, then moves to third as well) I can push my o/d off button and it down shifts from 4th to 3rd and almost immediately locks the converter. it shakes less in 3rd than in 4th.
If I touch the brake pedal it unlocks and all shaking stops. sometimes I ride the brake just to kepp it gaining in revs before I let the TC lock up again.
If I can finagle it to not shake much and get it up above 55mph (highway) then the shaking diminishes greatly and I can turn the o/d back on about 55mph and it up****s, and locks immedatley but not much shaking at all......

I have changed fluid and filter. P.O. said previous p.o. had trans rebuilt, and it looks nice and clean. After I changed filter/fluid I put 2 tubes of shudder fix in, then a week later (since no change) I put a bottle of lucas trans goo in, still no change.

furthermore, if I cut the purple/yellow wire going from comp to trans, it still has the same behavior, shaking whenever trying to lock-up, which If I understand correctly shouldnt be happening at all.....

Solenoid connector has been cleaned, found grease, mud, and bits of old o-ring in it, but trans fluid doesnt leak past the pins.

1991 f-250 7.3 idi non turbo 4wd manual hubs e4od

I hope thats enough info for someone that knows about these things?

 

[typ4]

Convertor clutch is bad, probably a crap rebuildon the torque.

 

[david85]

Was the converter replaced when it was rebuilt? I agree its likely a shot clutch.

I'm thinking the differencce between performance in 3rd vs 4th is due to more torque being required at the converter to maintain the same speed compared to 3rd.

Welcome to OBN

 

[gushaman]

Thanks fopr such a rapid response! So if the clutch is bad, thats inside the TC, correct? so it sounds like i need a tc....Would a manual lockup switch help me to make a final diagnosis?

 

[trackspeeder]

The converter is on its way out. Catch it now before it totally comes apart.
Most of the rebuilt converters use a single disk (Ford design) for lock up. It's located in the cover plate of the converter. Where the converter mounts to the flex plate. It dosn't take much to kill one.

Using a manual lock up switch with a failing converter will finish it off quick.
Your best bet is to replace it very soon. Otherwise you can lose the tranny when the converter junk goes through it.

 

[icanfixall]

I agree with what has been posted above. Any material degrading off the friction material on the clutch goes thru the cooler and into the rear of the trans... Then it lubes some of the bearings back there. After that the fluid drops into the pan and then its collected by the filter so.... Its kinda like dumping dirty oil into the trans where its trying to lube things.... I'm betting the labor is more than the cost of a standard torque converter is... The stock E4OD converters have just 25 square inches of friction material but they work very well for a long time... Mt BTS has a triple disc converter with 150 square inches of friction material.... We will never be able to make enough hp and torque to ruin one of thos converters.... How much are they??? Don't have much information. It was on the trans when I bought it from BTS... Brians Truck Shop in Leadhill Arakansas.... Great guy to talk with and he builds a terrific E4OD trans... No slushbox trans leave his shop thats for sure..... I installed my trans alone and would never do it again... Just lifting the truck high enough to get the trans (all 300+lbs of it) under the truck was a job in itself.... No floor jack no matter what you buy will lift the truck 29 inches for the trans and the trans jack to slip under the truck... I was rednecking and building all kinds of lifting blocks and even then I was only able to slide it under the frame by tipping it way forwards right behind the drivers side front tire..... Then the engine was about 2 inches too high for the bellhousing bolts to line up.... Oh yeah.... We were having fits that day... At least it was shadey under the truck that day......

 

[david85]

Gary, you're a wuss! I had to do that several times WITH a transfer case attached (uphill both ways and in a blizzard!!).

tri-clitch billet converters are the best but they can vary in price quite a bit. Mine was about $730 with tax (canadian funds) several years ago at a time when some were going for $1000 on the internet (american funds).

These days, I sometimes see Ebay listings for said converters as low as $300. Are they good? I have no idea. I might have been able to get one cheaper from an american supplier at the time but all the ones I contacted turned out to not really be HD in anything but name so instead I chose to buy from a source that was within driving distance in case I had to go back and yell at some one. Turns out the shop in victoria BC makes a decent converter though so it worked out fine.

I also suspect there was a defect in the converter in this case for it to fail so early on like this. I also wouldn't rule out sticking valves in the pump body possibly contributing but its hard to say how thorough the rebuilder was with checking absolutely everything and replacing anything that was shady looking.

For a non turbo IDI, its probably not needed to go all out with a billet 3 clutch converter though. A good dual clutch "RV" converter will probably do just fine.

 

[icanfixall]

David85.... I agree completely with what you have posted... Without knowing how this tran was built only a wag is really possible. Yes.... I'm a wuss when it comes to installing a E4OD trans... Too heavy to muscle in and too tall to fit easily under the truck.....

 

[gushaman]

thanks guys. I talked on the phone to a buddies trans guy and describe my symptoms. he said it sounds like a rebuild. Gonna get a second opinion from someone closer soon. If I had the money I'd be more than willing to have it rebuilt just so Id know its all good, but whats a part time grave digger to do, eh?

 

[DragRag]

I hope your not talking whole trans rebuild. All you need to do is a buy a torque converter that was done right and install it. I prefer the heavy duty billet torque converters, but will not throw down the cash for a triple disc. The single disc billet has worked good in my fleet of trucks on the ones I have changed anyway. IMO, you don't need a whole trans rebuild at all!

 

[OLDBULL8]

Before you do anything, pull the dust cover off the flywheel and check the 4 nuts holding the TC to the flexplate (flywheel), they do come loose if new nuts where not used when rebuild was done. Loose nuts will elongate the holes in the flexplate and make it shake. If this is true after checking, clean the studs and nuts with brake cleaner and use Blue Loctite when replacing the nuts, takes a 13MM socket on the nuts.

 

[gushaman]

oldbull, and others, will loose flexplate bolts cause a shudder only when it tryin to lock up?

 

[OLDBULL8]

oldbull, and others, will loose flexplate bolts cause a shudder only when it tryin to lock up?

Only takes 15 minutes to check them out, DO IT for Cris sakes, then go from there.

 

[trackspeeder]

oldbull, and others, will loose flexplate bolts cause a shudder only when it tryin to lock up?

No.

The converter is on its way out.

 

[gushaman]

the trans inspection cover bolts are damaged so i Couldnt check it yet. whats a good price for a converter and installation. Its hard to find a non-ripoff trans shop around here