DT 360 swap - the planning stages

[MidnightBlade]

No prob

 

[bike-maker]

Well, I was hoping I could discover some magical way to bolt the DT to a ZF5, but even with all kinds of machining/metal fab skills and equipment at my disposal, I think the adapters from Carson Stauffer are the way to do it.
Guess I'm going to have to sell one of the kids.

 

[ocnorb]

Guess I'm going to have to sell one of the kidneys.

Fixed!

 

[badass76ford]

Any updates on the great bellhousing pattern matchup search?

 

[paulb3]

Any updates on the great bellhousing pattern matchup search?

I believe the consensus is either the special DT to ZF5 adapter or to run a SAE 2/3 clutch housing. Which would mean running a medium duty transmission.

 

[bike-maker]

Yep, adapter to ZF, or SAE2 tranny.
Still not 100% sure on which way I would go; I've even thought of using an Allison 600 series auto in it (this would be the easiest and cheapest way to go). Depends on what kind of deal I can conjure up.
I spent about 2 weeks trying to find some way to bolt the DT to the ZF, but got nowhere.

 

[pennsylvaniabo]

Yep, adapter to ZF, or SAE2 tranny.
Still not 100% sure on which way I would go; I've even thought of using an Allison 600 series auto in it (this would be the easiest and cheapest way to go). Depends on what kind of deal I can conjure up.
I spent about 2 weeks trying to find some way to bolt the DT to the ZF, but got nowhere.

A lot of guys say those allison's suck as a trans, but they are also speaking from MDT experience. I wonder how they would do in a pickup application? As for zf to dt360...I think that is a carson stauffer deal. plus this would be the easiest route to get 4x4. just adjust driveshafts if needed.

 

[bike-maker]

All the DT360s I have seen had an Allison MT545 bolted to them. The 545 has 3 speeds, no torque converter lockup, and runs really loose; they are really mushy feeling. These are the ones everyone has bad things to say about.

The 600 series, like a MT653, has four speeds, with a locking converter that locks up in 3rd and 4th. 1st gear is only used if you manually shift it into 1st, but the gear ratios are so low, it probably would only be used when towing heavy in a light weight pickup. So it would act like a 3 speed automatic.

None of the old mechanical Allisons have overdrive, which is their major drawback. The only way around that for my application would be a swap to 3.55 gears and some bigger tires - 37" HMMV tires and 3.55 gears with no OD would put me at the same MPH/RPM as I am at now with 33's, 4.10's and the .76 overdrive. If I could get taller gears, this would be a good way to go.

 

[paulb3]

I heard that you can get the Allison 1000 (5/6 speeds) from a pickup and swap the bellhousing with the Allison 2000 housing SAE3 I believe. Then it's custom torque converter and other bits and pieces.

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?8633-allison-1000-to-4bt

 

[bike-maker]

The only reason I would go auto would be in the name of simplicity and cost. Going to a newer Allison kinda kills that idea.
Nearest I can tell, the only bell housing size that came behind any of the DT motors is SAE2. SAE3 isn't nearly as common, and a lot of people assume they have an SAE3 bell housing when it is actually SAE2. Adapters to go from SAE2 down to SAE3 are available, but end up adding a extra cost into the equation.

 

[bike-maker]

Just an update for now.........
For the last couple years, I've spent about half of my time laid off. Just got a new job lined up today, so I will soon be able to have a little extra money to start messing around with this thing.
This afternoon, I wheeled it out to the drive way, and went through about 1 gallon of Castrol Super Clean to knock all of the grease off of it in the hopes of putting a paint job on it.
I'm pretty set on using the ZF5 for the sake of simplicity. But I'm just not willing to pony up the money for the Carson Stauffer adapter; so I'll probly just get a big piece of 1/2" steel plate and start carving on it.
This means I will soon be in the market for a ZF5, it can be broke in half as long as the bellhousing and input shaft are in the correct places so I can use it as a template for the adapter plate.
Then I'll get a DT flywheel and have it machined down to IDI or Cummins size.
1 other piece of the puzzle; what turns on/off the electric vacuum pump on a powerstroke truck? I've got hydroboost, so I'm looking for an alternative to run the heater doors so I can ditch the engine driven vacuum pump altogether.

 

[dsltech83]

Those little PS electric pumps shut off whenever they suck down to a set amount of vaccum(not sure what that is though).

 

[George D.]

Good luck I hope you get that 360 in there. They are a litle sluggish stock but if you time them by ear instead of with the timming pin they run real nice and ofcause this is in a much heavyer vehicle that pushes a lot more wind. More power can be had just as easaly as with a 12v cummins but the bottom end is much stronger. And as tou surmised should be about the same as swapping a 6bt in there. I've always wanted to do this to my truck just never had the opretunety to get a DT360 or the space to do the swap. Its a very reliable engine besides the fact if you wanted to you could put out enough power to outrun a fully built duramax or cummins.

 

[bike-maker]

Those little PS electric pumps shut off whenever they suck down to a set amount of vaccum(not sure what that is though).

I'm just hoping they're not controlled by a computer, just a pressure switch.

 

[bike-maker]

Good luck I hope you get that 360 in there. They are a litle sluggish stock but if you time them by ear instead of with the timming pin they run real nice and ofcause this is in a much heavyer vehicle that pushes a lot more wind. More power can be had just as easaly as with a 12v cummins but the bottom end is much stronger. And as tou surmised should be about the same as swapping a 6bt in there. I've always wanted to do this to my truck just never had the opretunety to get a DT360 or the space to do the swap. Its a very reliable engine besides the fact if you wanted to you could put out enough power to outrun a fully built duramax or cummins.

From what I've heard they really wake up when you start to crank up the timing. Coolest part is there's no special tools required to change the timing.