Death Wobble - AGAIN!

[Agnem]

Last time I had a loose wheel bearing I torqued it to spec. A few hundred miles later, the bearing ate itself. If you've never replaced your wheel bearings, or you don't know how young they are, now would be the best time to do it right. I ended up trying to go on the cheap, and had to change them out several hours from home, on a Sunday night at 9:00pm, with chinese bearings from the only parts store that (thank God!) was open, where I had to buy the tools, grease, and whole shebang including races. I then ended up doing it all over again for peace of mind, and the other side for good measure with quality parts from Ford, at home at my leisure. Bearings are cheap when you look at the big picture. Don't take this loose bearing issue lightly.

 

[subway]

What is the track bar you guys talking about? Is it something that's on 4X4 &not on 2WD like mine?

Another question. on my 2WD dually, I got 4" body lift & 2 1/2" suspension lift. I built all the brackets to drop the TwinIBeams down etc etc.
Last year I found a supposed to be a 4" drop (actually it was more like 2-3" compared to my original, but they called it 4" drop) pitman arm that fits '82 thru '96 or '98 or so F series & Bronco...never got it on, but when I was dealing with local alignment shop they decided I didn't need the drop pitman. The tierods, center drag links, etc all defiantly are at more upwards angle than before.

I still kinda think it may need that drop, but not sure.

When I think things out, drivers side tierod linkage is one length(shorter) than pass. side linkage. With suspension 2 1/2" lift, when steering is turned without using drop pitman, it's nearly turning quicker than before....???? I'm trying to think it all out in my mind....any input from somebody????

When they played & supposedly got front end aligned, using eccentric kingpin bushings, got everything aligned correctly....camber, caster, toe-in etc, I've still had nothing but trouble with alignment. Been back & back & finally gave up for now.
To me one thing it acts like is not enough pos. caster....really quick turning side to side running down road. Fall into curve & it cuts really quick either direction....nearly like have to be careful & not over steer.

Also road walks too...too much for comfort.

As I think things out, the alignment shop might have been with specs alright for a rig sitting still on alignment rack, but still now right when running down road.

Any thoughts

hard to say without seeing it but all the steering geometry should be as level to the ground as possible including draglinks, rods and arms. if the links to the knucles are at an angle it creates bump stear as in the toe in changes every time your suspension starts flexing if you have a y link front steering set up. if it is a drag link to the one knuckle and a long link to the other side the steering will pull in the direction to the link at every bump. either way bad news.

sure you can set it up at a rack but like you said as soon as you start flexing the suspesion you will get exagerated steering problems if your parts arent straight.

 

[ttman4]

Yeah Mel, I put good Bearings & maintance in same category as Oil, Oil is cheap in the Big Picture.
Few days ago I started hearing that familiar "Humming" when I fall into a curve, tells me I got a bearing needs packing. If I wait to pack it I'll get caught in the dark, butt deep in snow, hard blowing wind about -80F below, flashlight broke....

Jred, other day I heard that "Y" term when I was asking round town for info about all this stuff, then you mention it. I learn something every day.
Not sure what I got on my rig, maybe "Y". There is a longer "center" link from Pitman over to pass. side tierod. Then Dr side is shorter link that hooks into the "center" link about 8" past Pitman toward pass side. Gives the look of "Y" I guess.
Actually it's setup like Here in LMC page 113

Late yesterday I picked up that drop Pitman & gonna try to put on today.

This guy at alignment shop has years of experience, yet about a month ago, after I gave up & I'm not going back, I tape measured my Toe-in....it was ONLY (duh) 1/2" wider in back than front.....after I corrected this myself, it steers big time better......

Still acts like it needs more Positive caster to me. I've got some offset eccentric radius arm bushings I may try later to see what changing my caster will do. Like I say, seems to want to drift, as well as not wanting to hold the road.
I got that printout round here somewhere they gave me of what it is set at....I need to dig it up.

I've had rigs thru the years, semi's etc, that had to go outside the book specs to finally get correct.

I know one thing, gets old going back, going back, going back, paying, paying trying to get things right....then they start acting like 'you're just a difficult customer"...."tender butted customer cause I don't like their tire balance job..." & then this one..."that thing got lots of miles on it....'ya need a new one"

 

[sassyrel]

The tires are old, and it has a rigged track bar put on by a previous owner. The problem went away for a little while after I fixed the caster, so that was why I was stumped. I was taking a closed look and found some other crap that I should address - looks like the pitman arm wobbles a little left to right, and my steering stabilizers are shot. Looks like I need to dig deeper, and find out which I should fix first. (I know they all need to be fixed, but I have Christmas presents to buy soon, and can not afford to fix it all at once)

On a side note, I read on another link about adapting a saginaw set up to our trucks - does anyone know what donor trucks or vans I can look for?

the arm itself wobbles???????? not good--either the arm has the splines wore, which is most likely--or the splines on the shaft are wore--still not good---if the nut is tight on the bottom of the shaft---time to get a diff steering box--with the arm---and THAT would be a lot of the cause of the wobble---only a little movement on the splines--equates to a lot of movement on the end of the arm---

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

Last time I had a loose wheel bearing I torqued it to spec. A few hundred miles later, the bearing ate itself.

I see this every day at the shop; people will shake their wheels when we get them jacked up, they find some looseness, tighten the bearings; then, a couple weeks later, here they come blaming their new tires for the vibration they are feeling.

Get it up on the jacks again, and the bearing is so shot that the wheel is about to fall off.


A properly installed wheel-bearing will be LOOSE for ONLY one reason: WEAR.

If looseness can be detected by wiggling the wheel, enough wear is present that all the hard-surfacing is probably gone, both on the rollers, the bearings raceway, and the seperate raceway that gets driven in the hub(commonly called a "cone").

In a pinch, you can get by for a few more thousands of miles by HAND PACKING plenty of good Kendall Super-Blu into the bearings and tightening properly; but, go ahead and buy a new set to have on hand when this temporary fix lays down.

If you merely re-adjust the looseness, the bearings will be grease-starved from the heat caused by the looseness having melted all the grease and it pooling up away from the bearing.

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

I need help!
the truck starts shaking violently.
Any suggestions or ideas?

Thanks,

Nick

So called "death wobble" is most often not the result of only one component being real bad, but the sum of a whole lot of components being worn.

Start with the most obvious and don't stop until every 1992-model 200,000-mile-plus piece of the steering/suspension is replaced with bigger/better.

Just like slack in a train starting out with a couple inches at the first coupler and amounting to a hundred feet at the end of the train, all the little loosenesses from your hand at the wheel to the contact-point of the tire and ground, can add up to a lot.


There are a dozen that are going to jump in here and say what they have said a hundred times, that a steering stabilizer is a bandaid for a steering system in need of proper repair, and it may well be; but, in a case such as yours, the first thing I would address is install a BIG new steering damper/stabilizer, better yet--a dual unit.

The stabilizer/damper will do just that---DAMPEN and absorb the shocks that are setting this "death wobble" in motion, thereby allowing you to still maintain some amount of control, possibly keeping you from having a wreck.

Also, all this out-of-control jerking around could SNAP a tie-rod stem or such, and giving you a real ride.

Don't get the stabilizer on and quit just because the wobble is gone; keep replacing parts until it is all BETTER than when new.

 

[7.3shrk]

Thank you guys for all the help. So far, I found both steering stabilizers were shot. Took them off, but there is still wobble. I next checked rod ends - they are fair - could be worse, could be better. The home made track bar was loose, so I tightened it up. I then checked the steering box. Input shaft has a little side to side play, and the sector shaft has a little side to side play. I thought there was supposed to be NO play. Is it possible to take out this play with the adjusting bolt? Is it time for a new box? Should I try to rebuild this one, or not waste my time. I still have to do the wheel bearings, so which should I do first?

Thanks for the help,

Nick

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

I found both steering stabilizers were shot. Took them off, but there is still wobble.

Confused , did you replace them with new, or just take them off ??


For the steering-gear, get one rebuilt by RedHead Steering Gear; there are about two dozen threads about them on here.

 

[subway]

there shouldent be any noticable play in the box, tightining up the allen screw on the top will just take up the slack in the gears in the center position and do nothing for the bearings on the input and pitman shaft.

warning - if you tighten up the gears watch it when you turn the wheel. the gears wear the most in the middle but may be fine on the outer end (when the wheels are turned). so if you tighten up in the center it could bind when you turn, and in extreem cases crack the box.

they can be rebuilt at home but are not for the weak of heart
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=570869&highlight=saginaw+rebuild
i went the easy way and dropped and auto zone box in, swapped it in about 1-2 hrs and didnt have to worry about "what is this extra part for".

 

[fultonphoto]

I got the wobble once in a while on my f350 CC for a while and then all of a sudden it got out of control. Had an alignment shop look at it and replace the king pin on one the side that wobbled. Never happened again.