Crank no start with ignition key, with ignition key on and jumping the starter relay truck starts

franklin2

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Look, I'm just trying to learn here. If you don't mind telling me, I do not understand what is "broken" here. How is that push button any different than what I already have? I have power to the FSS and I am causing the engine to reliably crank when I turn the key? In my mind the key is doing what it is supposed to do (provide power to the FSS and engage the starter). The only thing I can think is when I crank the engine with the key, it cuts power to the FSS for some reason - I haven't had the ability to check this as I need a second set of hands - one to turn the key to "start" and one to measure voltage on the FSS connector.

Are y'all hinting that the "slider" or "actuator" is cutting power to the FSS when I turn the key to start?

I appreciate you telling me that the push button is supposed to help with starting the truck but I do not understand "why", without that "why" I can't fix this.
Stick with it, don't let them throw you off. You are correct, the key is cranking the engine, so the famous actuator piece that breaks is not the problem.

If you want to try another experiment, get a jumper wire and hook one end to the battery +, and hook the other end to the IP fuel solenoid. As you mentioned before, it should click when you do this. Then get in the truck and crank it with the key and see if it starts. If it does, it's obvious the IP fuel solenoid is not getting power when the ignition switch is in the "start" position. As a good guess, I would replace the ignition switch, which is behind the dash mounted on top of the column. Take the bolts out of the column to the dash and let the steering wheel down and rest on the seat. Then you should be able to see the ignition switch easier.
 

MJGenay

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Stick with it, don't let them throw you off. You are correct, the key is cranking the engine, so the famous actuator piece that breaks is not the problem.

If you want to try another experiment, get a jumper wire and hook one end to the battery +, and hook the other end to the IP fuel solenoid. As you mentioned before, it should click when you do this. Then get in the truck and crank it with the key and see if it starts. If it does, it's obvious the IP fuel solenoid is not getting power when the ignition switch is in the "start" position. As a good guess, I would replace the ignition switch, which is behind the dash mounted on top of the column. Take the bolts out of the column to the dash and let the steering wheel down and rest on the seat. Then you should be able to see the ignition switch easier.
Thanks for the advice. Hooked up the IP to the battery positive with some wire/alligator clips and cranked it - it started right up. So I'm going to say I'm losing power to the FSS when I turn the key to start. No clue why although the ignition switch seems like a likely culprit.
 

IDIBRONCO

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Correct that it only starts with key on fender solenoid jump.

What am I not understanding here?

How is that push button any different than what I already have?
What you aren't understanding here is that a push button will let you act as if you're jumping the solenoid which, as you say, is the only way that the truck will start. It's EXTREMELY simple. What's so hard to understand? I'm, not trying to throw anyone off or misdirect anyone. I offered a simple solution and got "what is the meaning of existence?" questions in response. If you can't understand something as simple as installing a push button for the starter, what it does, and how it will help you, good luck on fixing this!
 

MJGenay

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What you aren't understanding here is that a push button will let you act as if you're jumping the solenoid which, as you say, is the only way that the truck will start. It's EXTREMELY simple. What's so hard to understand? I'm, not trying to throw anyone off or misdirect anyone. I offered a simple solution and got "what is the meaning of existence?" questions in response. If you can't understand something as simple as installing a push button for the starter, what it does, and how it will help you, good luck on fixing this!
So that's what it has come to? You need to insult me because I asked you to clarify so I could better understand the system? You want me to return the favor?

You must be one of those guys that is of the type of "don't ask me why just do it because I said so!!!".
 

IDIBRONCO

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So that's what it has come to? You need to insult me because I asked you to clarify so I could better understand the system? You want me to return the favor?
No. It' s the fact that you made another thread where I suggested that the noise that you had upon starting your engine was a bad DMF. Instead of checking that out, you said that you had no idea what you were looking at, you wouldn't pay someone who knew what to look at to look at it, you made a MANY page long thread trying everything that you could come up with OTHER than what I suggested, and even after someone told you that the flywheel had loose springs, which literally means that the flywheel is bad, you still didn't want to accept it! THAT kind of thing gets all of the respect that it deserves. When it happens again, there isn't much patience to go around.
 

MJGenay

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No. It' s the fact that you made another thread where I suggested that the noise that you had upon starting your engine was a bad DMF. Instead of checking that out, you said that you had no idea what you were looking at, you wouldn't pay someone who knew what to look at to look at it, you made a MANY page long thread trying everything that you could come up with OTHER than what I suggested, and even after someone told you that the flywheel had loose springs, which literally means that the flywheel is bad, you still didn't want to accept it! THAT kind of thing gets all of the respect that it deserves. When it happens again, there isn't much patience to go around.
I made another thread because the hints in a general direction were very unclear and instead of asking and hoping people would dig through that whole thread to help me, I decided it would be simpler and easier to start a second thread. You suggested a theory that I may have a bad DMF but gave absolutely no clarification as to what that would actually look like. You just seemed to expect me to take your theory as gospel and replace my DMF, I decided to get some clarification before putting the effort and money in.
 

MJGenay

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Frankly IDIBRONCO, you're useless as a help and you're a *****. Stay out of my threads.

Merry Christmas.
 
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captain720

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A lot of rigs cut accessory power when cranking, I accidentally used a accessory wire to run a solonoid that was powering my HEI once and my 350 would start as soon as I stopped cranking, maybe your IP wires are somehow on an accessory circuit?
 
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MJGenay

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A lot of rigs cut accessory power when cranking, I accidentally used a accessory wire to run a solonoid that was powering my HEI once and my 350 would start as soon as I stopped cranking, maybe your IP wires are somehow on an accessory circuit?
Thanks for the idea, makes sense to me however this is a new issue, it used to have no issues cranking and starting with the key before.

I did notice that when cranking the engine with the key it'll catch a little bit as I let the key come back to "on" from "start". This makes sense to me as the IP FSS is getting power again when it comes back to "on" and the engine is still spinning some from the cranking.

I rigged up a temporary push to start switch until I can tear the steering column apart and find the issue which I'm thinking is in there somewhere. I'm going to need to find time to do this sooner rather than later as I expect what ever is going on with the ignition is going to eventually completely cut the power to the FSS.
 
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