Cheapish 8cyl p pump

Macrobb

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I don't like destroying things either, but I will point out that IDIs are in the "nobody wants them" category. They end up at the JY, nobody buys them, and they often end up getting scrapped when nobody buys them. I've ended up saving probably a dozen of them... but there are plenty more out there, just rotting in one yard or another.

So, IMHO, it's one of those things where if you are destroying something just to destroy it by being stupid(no oil, no coolant, run it till it blows for Youtube), you are just being an a******. On the other hand, if you are doing your best to keep it alive and it blows one way or another, well, that's life.
 

Christian9112

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So I've been creeping on this thread since the beginning, in hopes that an answer for my question would pop up. If you can dump 5x amount of fuel with this pump, with all the other components survive in the engine, why not just use propane ? It's a cheaper setup even if it's throttle regulated.

I don't get the point of preserving the amount of engines there are in the world. If you have an idi already then preserve that. If this pump turns out to be the holy Grail for the idi, then your engine becomes more valuable. There will be people collecting these engines like they do with Cummins. I'm all for the research and development. Make my $500 engine worth 3k
 

Thewespaul

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Well it’s more like 10-12x the fuel, with propane you get to the point where the volume you’re injecting creates preignition, you don’t run into that with diesel
 

Christian9112

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so you inject 600cc + inside a cylinder that has 900cc? or am i getting the numbers wrong? is it 600cc for all the 7.3 liter cylinder
 

Thewespaul

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A stock na pump puts out around 60cc per cylinder, with a p pump we are planning on increasing the volume per cylinder by 10 fold or more, the volume per cylinder isn’t changing, but the density of the air will be.
 

Macrobb

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so you inject 600cc + inside a cylinder that has 900cc? or am i getting the numbers wrong? is it 600cc for all the 7.3 liter cylinder
Pumps are rated in CCs per 1,000 strokes(or injection events), and I think that may be for the entire 8 cylinder output. So either you are injecting .09 CC per injection event, or .011 CC. (for a 60 CC pump).

The actual amount of fuel being injected is quite small; remember, you need a *lot* of air(typically at least 18 times the amount in weight) per weight of fuel.
 

Christian9112

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Pumps are rated in CCs per 1,000 strokes(or injection events), and I think that may be for the entire 8 cylinder output. So either you are injecting .09 CC per injection event, or .011 CC. (for a 60 CC pump).

thats the answer that I was looking for.
I thought the pumps "cc" ratings were amount of fuel injected every compression stroke.
Im all in now. So with this new pump, will it produce 80psi boost or is that still dangerous
 

Macrobb

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Im all in now. So with this new pump, will it produce 80psi boost or is that still dangerous
So, first off you need to match your boost to your fuel, and of course, your turbo size to everything.
Also, remember - it's not boost that makes power, it's air density. So if you push 80 PSI in at 660F(typical for a turbo with 70% effeciency, you can get something like 0.130 lbs/cu-ft, which is like 12 PSI of boost at 100F. (ref: https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/air-density and https://www.stealth316.com/2-turbotemp.htm )
This is why intercooling is so important - temperature plays a huge part in how much density of air you have, and therefor how much power you can make.

(edit: Also, based on the same calculations, it looks like adding a good intercooler to a standard IDI turbo making 12 PSI of boost can provide up to 30% more air/power!)
 

Thewespaul

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Yep diesel cc ratings are per 1000 strokes since since it’s an average, it’s hard to say what it’s doing in a single injection because with these mechanical pumps there’s a lot of variation, you’ll even get different readings between cylinders a lot of time.
 

oregon96psd

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I don't like destroying things either, but I will point out that IDIs are in the "nobody wants them" category. They end up at the JY, nobody buys them, and they often end up getting scrapped when nobody buys them. I've ended up saving probably a dozen of them... but there are plenty more out there, just rotting in one yard or another.

So, IMHO, it's one of those things where if you are destroying something just to destroy it by being stupid(no oil, no coolant, run it till it blows for Youtube), you are just being an a******. On the other hand, if you are doing your best to keep it alive and it blows one way or another, well, that's life.

This^^^, everyone on this site seem's to have some delusional idea that an idi engine is the best engine ever. It's just an underpowered, inefficient, obsolete engine. I think it's awesome that some people are trying to push them to the next level, and when some turn into a cast iron jigsaw puzzle, oh well. There's still hundreds of thousands of them out there.
 

Macrobb

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This^^^, everyone on this site seem's to have some delusional idea that an idi engine is the best engine ever. It's just an underpowered, inefficient, obsolete engine. I think it's awesome that some people are trying to push them to the next level, and when some turn into a cast iron jigsaw puzzle, oh well. There's still hundreds of thousands of them out there.
What's sad is that despite being obsolete, they still are close in efficiency to modern vehicles if not in power.
I'm averaging a respectable 14.5-16 MPG, depending on conditions. That's not out of line with what I keep hearing from people in the real world, when it comes to newer trucks(especially anything with tons of emission cr*p on it)... And even with some vehicles that don't - a friend of mine is only getting 15 with his '06 Duramax, despite it being a much newer, better technology, with no DPF to clog things up.
(and that's not counting another friend who is currently averaging 12 in his 7.3 PSD... but that's probably due to how he drives and other issues that need fixed.
 

Christian9112

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About air density. Im designing a n/a hybrid type of thing and was wondering what you guys think. I'm seeing calculations of around 90 Kelvin temperature difference, even more if there's a bigger turbo.
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oregon96psd

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I was thinking more along the lines of the indirect injection being inefficient. Any engine that starts combustion in the head, surrounded by a water jacket is inherently inefficient. That's why its harder to keep one cool under load than a direct injection engine, energy going to heat the water is energy not creating power. You can pull a pre-cup A model 3406 engine out of a scraper and replace it with a direct injection B model and fix overheating without doing anything else, because it's better at converting the energy.
 

Thewespaul

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Yes, but fuel burning is just fuel burning. Air flow is what makes power, and these engines outflow most modern diesels.
 

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