Biting the bullet: Converting to electric fuel pump

[LowTech]

Cubey - Right, and even the filter mounting position makes it hard to do some simple things up top. Hell I had trouble accessing the bolts for the TPS w/ the filter there. More access to the engine from under the hood and ease of accessing the pump and filter, was enough to have me buying the parts. That's not even counting the priming aspect.

 

[Cubey]

One more vote for a truck platform\trailer!
Sold my m.h!
Never going back!
But to EVERY season turn turn turn... You fit your needs.
Ford dicked class b owners, then class a next!

I like the motorhome setup best, after having done a truck bed camper and a trailer. That's why my F250 is collecting dust right now in my mom's back yard. It's my emergency backup in the event the motorhome gets totaled to the point it's beyond repair. It's already paid for and costs nothing to store, so yeah. Maybe I'll sell it later but for now, it can sit there.

 

[Cubey]

Right, and even the filter mounting position makes it hard to do some simple things up top. Hell I had trouble accessing the bolts for the TPS w/ the filter there. More access to the engine from under the hood and ease of accessing the pump and filter, was enough to have me buying the parts. That's not even counting the priming aspect.

In my case, the VRV. It only had 1 Phillips screw holding it on and I almost couldn't get it out due to obstruction. I replaced it and the missing screw with hex head bolts, so they are far easier to loosen with a run of the mill wrench.

 

[nelstomlinson]

Instead, I decided on the Holley Red. It's rated 97GPH and 5-7psi right out of the box, so no regulator is required for an IDI.

Watch out, it's 97GPH at 0psi, and only 45GPH at 5psi.

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[Selahdoor]

I like the motorhome setup best, after having done a truck bed camper and a trailer. That's why my F250 is collecting dust right now in my mom's back yard. It's my emergency backup in the event the motorhome gets totaled to the point it's beyond repair. It's already paid for and costs nothing to store, so yeah. Maybe I'll sell it later but for now, it can sit there.

I hope you have someone there who starts it up and lets it run a bit, every month or so. Maybe take it for a spin around the yard, or to the gas station...

Watch out, it's 97GPH at 0psi, and only 45GPH at 5psi.

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I believe we only need 35gph.

 

[Cubey]

Watch out, it's 97GPH at 0psi, and only 45GPH at 5psi.

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Hm, darn. Though actually it looks like 50 but yeah, still shy of 75ish. If it drops to 4psi, it still flows at a 72gph, so it might be ok.

My understanding is that electric fuel pump pressure is higher at lower engine RPMs, due to less fuel being consumed, so lower flow is acceptable. The wider the throttle is open for higher fuel consumption, the higher the flow and the lower the pressure.

Yeah 3-4psi is lower than 5 that the IP likes, but I wonder how much of an issue that would actually cause for short term bursts of acceleration?

Lots of folks seem to run unregulated electric fuel pumps on IDIs without massive problems. Heck, people have reported here on OB that their IDIs started and ran with NO fuel pump operating at all.

As I have mentioned, I have driven the heck out of my NA F250 with a wimpy Mr Gasket 12D pump a past owner installed, with a max of about 30gph. I actually did cross mountains with it.

 

[nelstomlinson]

Messing with pressure messes with timing, but dropping a couple psi climbing a long, steep hill probably isn't going to be a show stopper.

 

[Cubey]

Messing with pressure messes with timing, but dropping a couple psi climbing a long, steep hill probably isn't going to be a show stopper.

That's my thought. And as I say, I keep my foot out of it for controlling EGT. I take truck lanes and put on hazards along with the semis if need be. Even on flat highways, I'm typically cruising at 55-60mph.

I once drove a 3cyl Geo Metro half way across the US and back once, from WA to AR, so I don't mind taking it slow on hills.

If I find that it's problematic, I can always get a Holley Blue later, and save the red for a backup.

 

[Philip1]

Here is another option for even more fuel flow if you decide the red isn't enough. 140 gph at 0psi and 120 gph at 9 psi

https://www.amazon.com/Holley-12-81...s=holly+black+fuel+pump&qid=1581042386&sr=8-3

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[Cubey]

Here is another option for even more fuel flow if you decide the red isn't enough. 140 gph at 0psi and 120 gph at 9 psi

https://www.amazon.com/Holley-12-81...s=holly+black+fuel+pump&qid=1581042386&sr=8-3

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Maybe the 105p with regulator would have been fine, but the return line crap just complicates things. It's close to the Holley blue and probably uses the same repair kit as red/blue but maybe not. A regulator means another possible failure point too.

Red's flow will probably be fine for my needs. If not, it won't be hard to change to Blue later. The high cost is worth it for the convenience it gives.

 

[Cubey]

Dangit, my mech pump might be starting to dump fuel in the crankcase. It smells a little funny on the dipstick but isn't drippy (yet) and it's only slightly past the full line. Gonna keep a close eye on that over the next days city driving.

Unless the fresh oil needs time to get it's "normal" used smell and I slightly overfilled it, but I didn't think I did. (Just changed the oil about 20 city diving miles ago).

I have everything to convert the lift pump now (after the Holley Red is delivered today) but I need to wait for a couple clear days, later this week.

 

[ttman4]

I decided on the Holley Red. It's rated 97GPH and 5-7psi right out of the box, so no regulator is required for an IDI. No return lines to mess with either.

Well for what ever it's worth I been running Holly Red's & Holly Blues, both unregulated, since '03 on my '90 & '92. If it's messing up anything I haven't noticed. They seem to run A-OK.

Reason I went to electric pump to start with was cause I started running veggie oil (WVO) & WMO & decided I needed an electric pump along with my mechanical. 3 yr ago when I put this '94 IDIT in my '90 I did away with the mechanical as well as built & drilled a block-off plate (took bout 15 min). I have my front tank running straight diesel, rear & bed tank running my mixtures. These IDI's nearly run on anything..... Diesel, WVO, WMO, hay, straw, wood chips, sawdust.... hahaha

Seriously though, the Holly Reds & Blues have worked for me. The '90 has a Red on it now & been running for 8-10 yrs.
BTW, I've always pulled the screens out of the Hollys also. I have a Cat water-trap/screen filter mounted on the frame BEFORE the Hollys that catch & filter lots of stuff out before the pump.

 

[Cubey]

BTW, I've always pulled the screens out of the Hollys also. I have a Cat water-trap/screen filter mounted on the frame BEFORE the Hollys that catch & filter lots of stuff out before the pump.

The screen is meant to be a flame arrestor, not a filter.

I will have this 100 micron in-line strainer/filter between the tank and filter. That should be enough to save the pump from trash without stressing it since it's a pusher, not a puller. That's why it needs to be as close to the tank as possible. So the less restriction before the pump, the better.

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[Cubey]

Maybe I'm wrong about fuel intrusion, but I'm now parked until I do the fuel pump conversion just in case.

It's at the start of the U in FULL. It was roughly there yesterday too, give or take. City driving around here like I do, its hard to get it up to full operating temp usually, but that's reasonably close.

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When I wipe oil from it between my finger and thumb, it isn't drippy at all. No odd color either, dark brown, looks black on a white paper towel.

I'll loosen the drain plug and let a little drain since it might just be overfilled oil, not fuel contaminated. It would be odd that it started fuel intruding immediately after I changed the oil. It never went up on my way here, only down from oil consumption. And nothing really drastic.

I'd hate to waste perfectly good oil with about 30 miles on it, if it's not contaminated by changing it out of paranoia. There's no good way to tell as far as I know though. This fresh oil doesn't have the "French fry" smell of the used oil after 2000 miles, so it's hard to tell. Maybe I should just give it another oil change just in case anyway? (another $45 with filter )

There are replacement elements for the fuel filter I mentioned. Spectre has an identical filter with replacement elements at Autozone here.

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After returning the new mechanical pump I got "just in case", I picked up this weatherproof 2 wire connector set for the Holley pump for about $8. That way it's stupid simple to pull the pump if I ever need to clean or repair it.

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So here's everything for the Holley Red installation, except for a few things like ring terminals. Just gotta wait until Thursday for clear weather.

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[Cubey]

Eesh, it feels like I'm never going to get all the parts gathered up.

I kept forgetting the rear tank transfer pump fittings, so I gotta get at least a 5/16" tee.

I guess I'll just force a 5/16" hose on a 3/8" barb (a ball valve on the supply hose) with some petroleum jelly to save me having to convert to 3/8" on the transfer pump's inlet side. But I'll see if i can and how much it'll cost to locally source a 1/8" npt to 3/8" barb fitting first.

I think I will feed the pumped rear tank supply into the front tank return line. It shouldn't pressurize the return lines much or at all. It's only a 5-7 psi pump anyway, and fuel will take the path of least resistance, which should be the tank. That seems like the easiest way to do it.

It would be best to transfer when the engine is off so the injectors can return fuel without fighting the pump, but that's doable, since I typically stop within 100 miles anyway.

I somehow don't have the 30w soldering iron anymore i thought I had, and the 20w i have cant heat up wire enough to melt solder onto the wire from above, so I said screw it and used crimped butt connectors I already had, with electrical tape and heat shrink tubing over them. Maybe it'll hold up a while. If not, at least that's not expensive or hard to go back and redo later. I really wanted everything soldered but it just wasn't meant to be right now. I might redo it in a month or two after I get a more powerful soldering iron. Right now, I just need it working asap.

I assembled the relay harness this evening and spliced the connector to the pump. That'll save me daylight, having that already done ahead of time. It's a patchwork harness, using old scraps I had already, but hopefully it'll last long enough for me to get out of my mom's driveway again before the rain starts up again next week.