Biting the bullet: Converting to electric fuel pump

[Cubey]

I finally got the cargo trailer hitched up and took off from my mom's house. When turning out from the driveway and watching the RH mirror to be sure I didn't hit the mail box, I could see grey smoke poofing out of the exhaust at low speed when accelerating, since the black trailer was in contrast behind it while turning. Timing must still be way off despite the fuel pressure regulator. Makes sense since it still feels a bit wrong, but it's definitely better than without the regulator.

I'll be going to the shop in Rowlett TX that's listed in the timing registry thread. It's closed on weekends, so I didn't want to show up today and have them be too busy for a few days. I'll call tomorrow and see about scheduling for a time/day next week.

I'll report back after that gets done.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

I'll bet it feels good to get back out on the road after all this time.

 

[Cubey]

I'll bet it feels good to get back out on the road after all this time.

Yeah. But it's different and is going to take a few days to get adjusted to again, after being in a house for 7-8 months.

I haven't left town yet since I had to finish packing, had to top off all the tires (trailer too), fueled up, and stopped and said "later" to the mom and pop RV shop owners (thought I'd need a bigger drop ball mount until I got on flat pavement and saw it was almost perfect, was gonna buy one from them but didn't need to).

By then it was about 3pm so I just walked my dog at a park until she was tired, then came to a good place here and parked for the night. I don't like night driving if at all possible.

Tomorrow, I need to drop off some crapazon returns (king pin set and more) at Kohl's along the way. Then about a 1hr 15min drive (going slower, 60-65) to a free campground where I'll be for the weekend probably. Unless it's too rowdy, then I can use truck stops or other places for the next several nights. Nice weather, so the locals might go wild out there being the weekend.

 

[Cubey]

MPG is WAY down currently. I might be getting as low as as 6.25 hwy. I was getting ~8 with the leaky mechanical pump back in December. Highest I saw as 9.5-10 in mid 2019. I know the trailer is a partial factor, but not entirely. It's much shorter and less wide than the RV.

I did have my foot in a bit, staying at around 65 on flat runs. (60 up hills, 70 down). EGTs are normal but do drop a lot from 67mph (900*F) to 63mph (700-750*F) so make of that what you will. Extra throttle but not using the fuel properly I suppose? Never got over 900*F though, so at least EGTs are ok even if timing is screwed up and is probably wasting fuel. 850-900*F is about what it used to get without towing and with the mechanical fuel pump.

I did notice that the RH brakes/hubs seem hotter than the LH side ones after 60 mile run on the interstate. Odd. Maybe it was the way the wind was blowing, cooling off the LH side more than the RH side. It's not too hot too touch (at least at the wheel simulators over the center hubs) but the LH side was almost cold while RH was quite warm. I can't imagine the brake MC would cause that since it's only on one side (front+rear). I'll just have to keep an eye on that.

The trailer bearings seem fine. The dust caps were cool to the touch after the 60 mile drive.

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[IDIBRONCO]

Maybe it was the way the wind was blowing, cooling off the LH side more than the RH side.

I have had that happen before. Just keep an eye on them for a while.

 

[Cubey]

Well it hasn't taken me long to hate the idea the transfer pump setup. I haven't even really used it yet even.

I can't see how much fuel is in the rear tank due to having it forced to show the front on the gauge via jumped wires at the old FSV harness. So, it's gonna be easy to maybe burn up the pump from running it dry if I'm not super careful.

Even after timing gets done, I expect my mpg might be as low as 7 with the trailer, so I need to be able to properly use both tanks instantly. I can also carry an extra 5 gallons in a yellow can I bought a couple months ago for emergencies.

I think I will get one of these valves with the harness and do away with the transfer pump:

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...fv5k/5809435?q=fuel+tank+selector+valve&pos=1

Yeah it's cheaper online, but it has a lifetime warranty that is honored nationwide in stores, so the extra $25 is worth it to be able to get a replacement within a few days.

I'll just have to find another place to mount it, since the Holley Red is mounted where the FSV is supposed to be.

I don't see why I can't mount it horizontally with a couple of screws to the underside of the floor near the Holley Red. It's not heavy and doesn't vibrate much like a fuel pump, so I figure it should be fine that way.

I'm just debating if I want to do it now or in spring, since I can get by with the transfer pump and 5gal can for now. Sooner might be easier due to stops I'm making along the way where I can get away with doing minor fuel system work. Not sure where I could in AZ, maybe a truck stop? I doubt they would notice or care so long as I use a drain pan to catch the fuel. What's gonna take most of the time is properly splicing in the harness. The rest is easy, just connecting the 6 hoses.

I just know it's a pain only having one 18 (19?) gallon tank at what looks like 6-6.5mpg right now with bad timing. That's about 85-90 miles for 3/4 tank. Even if I get lucky and get 7.5-8 when towing with proper timing, that's still only a bit over 100 miles from 14 gallons.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

My idea would be to fill both thanks, use the plumbed in tank, fill via transfer pump, then fill both again. That way, unless you wait until you're almost completely empty on the plumbed in tank, you'll never run out on the transfer tank so your pump won't burn up.

 

[Cubey]

My idea would be to fill both thanks, use the plumbed in tank, fill via transfer pump, then fill both again. That way, unless you wait until you're almost completely empty on the plumbed in tank, you'll never run out on the transfer tank so your pump won't burn up.

Yeah, in theory that should work. It's a 30gph pump though, so it would take almost half an hour to refill the front tank from 1/4 to full. (Half a gal per min x 13-14 gals = 26-28 mins) Quite a wait vs instantly switching tanks. Plus remembering to turn off the pump. And I'm at the mercy of a cheap slow pump that takes a week or longer to get cheap online.

I guess I'll wait until spring since it's not super important right now, since I have the pump and can. If the transfer pump dies with fuel in the rear tank, I can disconnect the supply and siphon pump it into the can. A bit messy, but doable in a pinch. Hopefully the timing gets me back to at least 8mpg where it's less of a problem though.

 

[Cubey]

Huh, I might have been off on the mpg. And I think at least the rear still has the shower head. Filling the rear was 17 gallons.

Front was being a pain to fill (bad venting, very long pipe to the tank) with a big truck nozzle. It was spitting out so much foam it took like 20 mins to pump 14 gallons. I ended up filling the front all the way to the top of the neck nearly. Had enough room to put on the cap.

The entire filler pipe can hold about 1.5 gallons, so let's say I had 20 gallons in the front. My fuel gauge is being a bit silly, not going above the F line anymore, maybe due to the clip on splices that are jumping the wire in place of the FSV. Maybe the resistance is a bit off now.

After a 79 mile drive today with a rest area stop mid way, it's a bit above the half a tank line. Assuming it used 9 gallons including the entire filler tube, that's 8.77 mpg. If it used 10, that's still 7.9mpg.

Maybe the old diesel in the tanks was mucking up the mpg for a while. Or the first fill up just kicked off way too soon so I had a couple gallons less than a full tank.

I'm less than half an hour away from the shop to do the timing in the morning now so yeah. I still have the rear tank entirely full and half a front tank.

 

[Cubey]

For some reason, the forum wasn't working for me yesterday at all or part of today. Very strange!

It took like 5 hours to do the timing including putting everything back. It was off about 4 degrees retarded he guy said. He charged me a little more but it was nothing for as long as it took. Plus he lost the kickdown lever spring so he had to replace that. He probably lost money (in terms of labor hours).

I'm not sure if it made much difference but it might have a tiny bit?

MPG is actually not as bad as I thought, including before timing. It's getting around 8.5 with the trailer, give or take. I'm okay with that.

The transfer pump doesn't work so well when driving but it did transfer about 7 gallons during a roughly 65 mile drive. Yeah, I used more than it transferred, but I kicked it on mid way between 1/4 and 1/2 so by the time I got to my planned fuel stop, I was still at 1/4 tank. Better to use without the engine running like I guessed, but now I know for sure.

I'd still prefer the FSV but I'll put that off until the transfer pump dies.

 

[Cubey]

Bah. Something is screwy now I guess after stuff got messed with. Not as far as driving, but as far as cold starting/air intrusion.

When it wasn't as cold a week ago and when I was driving every day, I didn't notice a problem. Even when I was at one camp for 3 nights (Nov 11-14), it was fine to start.

But now it's colder, which makes rubber things shrink.

Back on Friday around noon'ish, after sitting parked for 5 nights including some chilly nights, it started and quickly stalled out like it had air in the return system. The usual tons of cranking to get it started again. No other problems including starting a few times more when fueling up and doing a few other stops around town. No highway driving problems either.

It sat here 2 nights (Fri-Sat) and it was cold today (mid 40s at best) and I decided to see how it would do. It started and stumbled like it had air and half wanted to stall, but it didn't. I guess since I was giving it a tiny bit of throttle on and off. It smoothed out and idled fine after that. Then I shut it down after about 15 more seconds since I wasn't going anywhere today.

The hard hard line from the top/front of IP to the fuel filter got messed with (if not slightly damaged) when the shop guy was trying to tilt the pump due to things being tight. We had to unhook it from both the IP and the fuel filter connection. No leaks can be seen, but that IS the return line system so maybe with the engine warmed up, the olives expand and don't show a leak.

It was cold, misting and windy so I only had a quick look under the hood for fuel drips or odor but I couldn't see or smell any. The few injector caps I could see looked dry. The hard return line that got messed with between the IP and stock fuel filter didn't seem to have any fuel dripping/leaking. I know it has olives though, so they could be the problem.

Before I start it tomorrow, I will turn on the Holley pump (key to Acc) and see if air purges out of the fuel filter valve.

It could be IP fuel line olives I suppose, especially the one for the IP inlet in the center of the rear with the injector lines around it. My F250 has had a similar problem in winter. What "fixed" it was tightening it down a bit more with a flare nut wrench so it couldn't round off. Had to it twice, a year apart one time each. It had fuel dripping/leaking from it also though as I recall. A bit harder to see on the motorhome without pulling the doghouse cover.

I guess I'll worry about it later if it's still a problem after I get out to the Arizona desert where it shouldn't quite as cold. I still have a year free replacement warranty on the batteries and if I end up wearing out the starter this winter, oh well. I have roadside assistance. I would buy the $50 higher NEW starter with a lifetime warranty from O'Reilly. The rebuilt one for $50 less only has a 1 year warranty.

I know this wasn't a problem before, since it sat all summer and always started perfectly the small handful of times it was started. Had no problems last winter either when it was very cold around Nov-Dec. Since that's the one thing that was touched on the return line system, it's very suspect.

I will also try sticking the soft return line back to the fuel filter and turn on the Holley pump and see if air purges that way too. That should happen since I don't think there is a check valve between the filter head and the return line, is there? If the Holley pump is on, it should pressurize the return lines via the filter head with that soft line connected, correct?

Here is what I mean. This is from a pic of my F250 but the connection setup is basically the same on the RV. An "L" shaped splitter fitting coming off of the stock filter, one is soft line to the injector return lines, and the other is hard line going to the IP's metering valve.

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Here is a pic of the RV. Ignore the old rotten soft return line. The pic is from before I did the O-rings and lines. You can't see the fitting setup, but I roughly drew the route of the hard line that comes off the IP's metering valve.

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[IDIBRONCO]

It could very well be the olives. They are probably the original ones. How did the timing affect the running? Or did it?

 

[Cubey]

It could very well be the olives. They are probably the original ones. How did the timing affect the running? Or did it?

I'm hoping that tying the soft return line back to the fuel filter like it's supposed to be solves it. In theory, the Holley should purge that line fully of air when the soft line is also connected. It should push fuel from the filter head into both the soft line (to injector caps and to tank return) and the hard line (to metering valve) lines and purge all of the air in the return line system while the glow plugs are running. The air should get forced out to the tank, correct? That's the path of least resistance, the return line entering the rear tank.

That's my theory, anyway. I assume that's how it was designed to do when cranking it with a mechanical pump too.

I had that soft line undone for testing/troubleshooting purposes basically, but never reconnected it. Some people are of the opinion that you should have it unhooked with an electric pump. It has a scrap piece of hose on the filter side with a bolt in it and a clamp. Same with the soft line from the injectors, a bolt and clamp to plug it. Just a 2 minute job to put it back.

It's hard to say if timing helped. It might have helped a little? I'm getting right about 8mpg towing that enclosed trailer. Sounds about right. I only got 9-10 in summer 2019 on the interstate going northbound towards Sioux Falls, SD for a few hundred miles, probably with a tail wind. That was before the new fan clutch which def made the mpg take a hit. It also makes it run cooler (normal) like it should though with the new fan clutch. 180-195'ish when towing the little trailer, depending on hills and daily temp.

I'm getting slightly better mpg than I was last winter with the leaking mechanical lift pump, so there's that at least. I was getting about 8.3 with the new fan clutch and before the mech lift pump started leaking, so not much of a hit on MPG with the trailer. Timing may have helped MPG more than power.

(Hm, I wonder if not having that soft line tied in to the metering valve was causing problem with timing...)

 

[Selahdoor]

Not just rubber things...











Just sayin...

 

[Cubey]

Here is a diagram I drew of the stock return line setup. Without the soft line between the injector cap and the filter housing, air in the (orange) hard line has no where to go hardly except into the IP and to the injectors. Maybe that'll solve the problem right there. The olives on that hard line might be weepy from leaking, so I'll keep an eye on that.

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