Biting the bullet: Converting to electric fuel pump

[The_Josh_Bear]

Mine is about 7 at idle, about 6 when cruising at 60-70, and about 5 even when floored at 70mph, but getting no more speed out of it. So I'm at least 3psi higher than normal.

I didn't go back and read everything but these numbers are great. Like @Booyah45828 said the IP's are calibrated to 5psi on a bench, so real-world 6psi cruising is really good. 3psi as shown in the video example is not "normal" but it is common for the current aftermarket mechanical pumps. I got a Ford pump and it's much better at around 5psi average with a similar curve as yours. 7psi idle, 5-6psi cruising and 4psi WOT.
The idle/driving/WOT psi will also be lower if you have an open bleeder-style return tee'd into the fuel system than if not. I ran my not-stock fuel setup without a bleeder for a long while and then later added the OE style bleeder back into the return system and lost about 1psi at all times. 1psi isn't a big deal, 3-4 can be.
I reinstalled the return bleeder because if I forgot to swap tanks(when low on fuel) on my hill it would kill the engine on a very steep, twisty hill, often rainy and dark. But with the return bleeder if I forgot to switch tanks the engine will run long enough to slap the button and get fresh fuel without dying, since it's purging a ton of air instead of sending it through the IP.

 

[Cubey]

I didn't go back and read everything but these numbers are great.

No they aren't, it's seriously throwing off the timing. I can't go faster than about ~60mph at WOT on a flat highway since I put the electric pump. I drove it at 75mph a time or two without it being floored with the mechanical pump. Unfortunately, I didn't check the fuel pressure with the mechanical pump before I removed it, so I don't know what kind of pressure it had.

 

[The_Josh_Bear]

Maybe the new fuel pressure is throwing off the timing as it is timed right now, but those fuel pressure numbers are great. The timing needs to be changed, not the fuel pressure.

 

[Cubey]

Maybe the new fuel pressure is throwing off the timing as it is timed right now, but those fuel pressure numbers are great. The timing needs to be changed, not the fuel pressure.

Be that as it may, it's about 175 miles down the 75mph interstate to get to a shop who can time it properly. It's NOT safe to get on that interstate when the top end is 60mph with the pedal to the floor. I bought the cheap Mr Gasket pressure regulator so I can play with the pressure until I can get this to a shop who knows how to time an IDI. Local diesel shops I have called don't know how to time an IDI. It's possible the local International truck shop MIGHT have the tools still around and an old timer who knows the IDI, but they'll be way more than the $50 that the shop 175 miles away (which I will be passing again this fall, hopefully) will charge. It's one that's in the OB timing registry thread.

 

[Cubey]

I finally took the time to install the cheap Mr Gasket dial fuel pressure regulator. It's in the fuel system like this:

[tank]-[strainer]-[Holley pump]-[Racor W/S filter]-[regulator]-[stock filter]-[IP]

At idle, I get roughly 4psi reading with the regulator set to 5psi. Maybe due to the already low pressure Holley Red pump. It does change when I change the regulator, so it is functioning. It's always roughly 1psi under the regulator's setting.

That's a 1psi drop from what it was without the regulator, so it's doing what I want it to do. I can lower the regulator more, if that's still too much pressure for whatever the timing is set to right now. It lets you change it it in 0.5psi increments, and it seems loosely accurate in the gain/drops. I will have to test drive it around some to see if I can get it back to acting normal.

I just have to shut off the engine (for safety) and crawl a short ways under from the front to reach the regulator, so it's not hard at least.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

In a truck, I would have recommended that you put it under the hood. With your crowded van engine bay, I think you put it in the right place.

 

[Cubey]

In a truck, I would have recommended that you put it under the hood. With your crowded van engine bay, I think you put it in the right place.

I would have to run hose to install it under the hood. I stuck it in between the hose coming off of the WS (under the driver side floor board on these) and the steel line. Very easy to remove later by just loosening two hose clamps and pulling it off and putting the WS output hose back on the steel line towards the IP and tightening one clamp.

It's only meant to be there temporarily, so the installation/removal allows for it. It's just a dirty job since you can't really avoid getting a small amount of diesel on you. Many people using these regulators (for gasoline) say in reviews they leak after a short amount of time. Maybe it's an ethanol issue with the cheap rubber in them? It was the cheapest name brand regulator and it's specs suit my need for a temporary one. If it leaks, it goes right to the ground, so it won't cover the engine in fuel.

I had to pull it back off and put natural gas/propane rated teflon tape on the fitting threads because it was leaking badly without it. No leaking now. Pressure holds with the pump turned off, unlike before the tape. I figure that might hold up to diesel better than water rated teflon tape. It's a different type of material. I used it on the Holley pump fittings too.

 

[H3LLSP4WN]

ive had the holley universal fuel pump on mine for over 8k and still pushing fine ive driven across the country multiple times with it and am planning a trip in a couple weeks to go to idaho no problems so far

 

[Cubey]

ive had the holley universal fuel pump on mine for over 8k and still pushing fine ive driven across the country multiple times with it and am planning a trip in a couple weeks to go to idaho no problems so far

I have the cheapo Mr Gasket 12D type pump on my NA F250 and it has lasted well. I guess because it has an extra in line filter between it and the tank, which saves it from getting ruined by rust. Some people say they don't last, but mine sure has. It was already on the truck when I got it in early 2017.

For the RV, I went with something heavier duty since it's got turbo.

 

[Cubey]

I finally took the RV out for a test drive since I put the dial fuel pressure regulator. Having it set to 4.5-5 on the dial was still too high. 2.5-3 seems too low too. So, it's at 3.5 on the dial and I can get it up to 65-70, but it still feels almost like an NA engine, gutless.

I have to hold the pedal to the floor to slowly get up to highway speed when merging on. Since it's not a mechanical pump, it doesn't speed up the more the throttle is pressed, so I have to just floor it and let it slowly wind up to speed. Not ideal, but I'm guessing that's the norm?

Proper retiming might still help it, which I plan to do at Creekside auto west if Dallas (listed in teh OB IDI timing reg). I didn't have the fuel pressure gauge hooked up (lazy me) so I don't know the actual pressure the stock fuel filter was seeing. I could tell a top end speed difference depending on the setting though.

I didn't see any smoke when floored (but that can be hard to see in the mirror) and EGTs are normal... never saw it over 900 when the pedal was being held to the floor even when at 65 (seems to somewhat try to top out at 68 on a very slight hill on the interstate). That's about the EGT with the mechanical pump at highway speeds. But that's still better than the 55-60 it was doing without the regulator. It could probably get to 70+ if I keep holding it to the floor but I was test driving it on a ~1 mile stretch between 2 exits here by the house.

 

[genscripter]

I had that cheapo fuel pump on my jetta TDI and it didn't last a few months. So I wouldn't trust it to put out the proper volume even if the pressure appears to be ok.

I've had good luck with 476087E Facet Gold-Flo Fuel Pump on my Jetta to push biofuel to the IP, and they last for years. As for my IDI van, I've always used Duralift pumps for both the biofuel tank system and the diesel system. My diesel side has duralift 7-9 psi, while the biofuel is thicker and needs the 9-11.5 e-pump. At my IP, my gauge reads about 7psi at idle, but it can dip down to 4psi at WOT.

I would expect your cheapo pump to not push enough fuel to your IP, hence the reason why your RV isn't getting up to highway speeds. Not only that, but the hose bibs on those smaller pumps are pretty tiny for the rate of fuel flow. It could be bottlenecking your system restricting flow. Are you getting any surging with the throttle pinned at 60mph?

 

[Cubey]

I had that cheapo fuel pump on my jetta TDI and it didn't last a few months. So I wouldn't trust it to put out the proper volume even if the pressure appears to be ok.

I've had good luck with 476087E Facet Gold-Flo Fuel Pump on my Jetta to push biofuel to the IP, and they last for years. As for my IDI van, I've always used Duralift pumps for both the biofuel tank system and the diesel system. My diesel side has duralift 7-9 psi, while the biofuel is thicker and needs the 9-11.5 e-pump. At my IP, my gauge reads about 7psi at idle, but it can dip down to 4psi at WOT.

I would expect your cheapo pump to not push enough fuel to your IP, hence the reason why your RV isn't getting up to highway speeds. Not only that, but the hose bibs on those smaller pumps are pretty tiny for the rate of fuel flow. It could be bottlenecking your system restricting flow. Are you getting any surging with the throttle pinned at 60mph?

A Holley red is a cheapo pump? No surging. It just acts like I'm being gentle with the throttle, not holding it at the floor.

 

[Cubey]

Here is the test driving I did months ago with a HFT fuel pressure test gauge on the stock fuel filter air purge valve (core removed) before I put the fuel pressure regulator. It never loses pressure entirely, so flow should be fine. It's like the IP/motor doesn't know what to do with the more consistent flow from the electric pump where it's not tied to engine RPMs.

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[genscripter]

Whats the pressure when you go up a long incline?

 

[Cubey]

Whats the pressure when you go up a long incline?

I haven't checked. No long inclines where I can go more than 50mph (the limit) nearby. I could try at that speed though?