Best guess adjusting drum brakes?

[Cubey]

I wish I wasn't such a dork about drum brakes but I am.

I skipped doing (more like forgot/didn't think to do) proper adjusting of the drum brakes when I had the axle shafts pulled and the wheels/tire off.

I moved the motorhome from the paved driveway to the grassy area next to it today to give the driveway back to my mom, and the braking was REALLY poor. (very low pedal due to the drums being so badly adjusted).

Am I gonna have to suck it up and just remove the wheels and axle shafts again to adjust the drums properly, or can I best guess them by just jacking it up on one side at a time (only have one jack stand) and turning it the partial turn back and forth as much as you can with the axle shaft installed?

Yeah it's not THAT much more to remove the wheels an shafts I guess, but I find it dreadful and time consuming doing it all by myself with only one jack stand. I just effing hate messing with drum brakes all the way around.

It has new self adjustors but dunno how well they actually work. In theory they should just adjust it automatically with normal braking.

 

[Detroit80]

They'll adjust automatically over time...but also require the brakes to be somewhat close to proper adjustment to work correctly, as they work off the shoes rotating a bit on the backing plate as they hit the drum. They're really more like automatic slack removers than automatic adjusters...as in, more like they'll automatically take up that one or two clicks it needs to be "right", not 20.

Block the wheels, put it in neutral, and adjust out until you hear the shoes just start to drag the drum. This way you can spin the wheel around properly.

 

[Cubey]

They'll adjust automatically over time...but also require the brakes to be somewhat close to proper adjustment to work correctly, as they work off the shoes rotating a bit on the backing plate as they hit the drum. They're really more like automatic slack removers than automatic adjusters...as in, more like they'll automatically take up that one or two clicks it needs to be "right", not 20.

Block the wheels, put it in neutral, and adjust out until you hear the shoes just start to drag the drum. This way you can spin the wheel around properly.

Well I adjusted them out more without even raising it at all and it feels slightly better. I honestly might need to adjust the booster push rod again since it seems like that could be an issue too. It had old worn out and a missing spring on the drums after a shop did hydraulic brake work on it. I replaced the booster after that since it was also worn out.

I also test drove it after the manual adjusting and it seems somewhat ok. I just have to get used to how it feels to drive vs my F250.

 

[Cubey]

Hmm, after a bunch of back and forth 1 mile each way test driving the RV on the interstate (messing with fuel pressure to "fix" timing after electric fuel pump conversion 7 months ago) the drums are rather hot, but not too hot to touch. I can for a few seconds before iI have to let go, so maybe I adjusted them out too far? It does take off when I let off the brake pedal when in drive, so it's not locked up hard. I might just leave them alone for now.

Oh I did notice the larger area in the MC was low on fluid (but the bottom stuff inside was still covered in fluid), so I'll get some in the next few days and top it back off. Not sure if the shop left it too low or what. Wouldn't surprise me if they did, since they left off a drum brake spring and a loose piece of mysterious metal both on the same side, ruining the drum.

 

[gandalf]

My initial reaction is that you're working on a class-c motorhome, based on a Ford chassis. It's probably never going to stop all that well. That being said, you've got to get it as good as possible. Keep in mind that you've got a lot of weight fighting those brakes.

I think your drums are too hot, based on the driving you mentioned. You used the brakes going to the interstate, turning around at the far end of your run, and getting off the interstate. I think you adjusted the shoes out a skosch too far.

I'm not fond of adjusting the brakes on my truck. I jack up the rear end and remove the tires and drum from one side at a time. That gives me easy access to the little star wheel. I adjust the shoes outward, trying replacing the drum regularly. Once it starts to have a noticeable drag I turn the star wheel back in just a tad bit. This works well unless you have really worn drums with a lip on the outer edge. Be sure to get both sides with about equal drag against the drums.

 

[Cubey]

I'm not fond of adjusting the brakes on my truck. I jack up the rear end and remove the tire and drum from one side at a time. That gives me easy access to the little star wheel. I adjust the shoes outward, trying replacing the drum regularly.

I have a full floater where you have to remove the spindle nut to get the drum off. No thanks. I'd rather fight with the stupid plate and star wheel than have to take all that apart AGAIN. I already did so twice recently on both sides. (Long story) I'd rather fight with the star wheel from the outside since I can do that without even raising the wheels. I'll back them back off a bit again and just keep the brake spoon handy in case I need to back them off more after driving it again.

The back plate seemed to be hotter at the top than the bottom. The drum itself seemed equally hot all over.

I have wheel simulators, so they block the axle shaft, meaning I have to remove the wheels to, at the very least, remove the lug nuts so the simulators can be removed, then put back a few lug nuts so the rims/tires stay on, then pull the axle shaft so I can turn the wheels. A little less labor, not having to move the rims/tires. Those are a pain to get back on by myself around the fiberglass wheel well opening.

I might just do that right before I leave... it's maybe a 2 hour task. My electric impact gun makes removing and part way installing the lug nuts easier. (I start them by hand, hit them with the impact until they make contact, then use a torque wrench)

The simulators really dress up the wheels or I'd just toss them in the truck camper for storage. They are a minor pain in the neck though. (Ignore the red circle)

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The bare rims are pretty hideous... and this old RV needs all the beautification it can get.

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[The_Josh_Bear]

I agree with Gandalf for adjustment but yeah that odd dually wheel/axle pull thing sounds rediculous for adjusting drums. Yuk!

I'd do as you are with the star wheel. I've done that on my pickup when I had too much lip on the drums to do it the other way. The way I figured out when to stop was running the star wheel until it quits turning(don't force it), then back it up say 3 or 5 clicks. Same thing both sides, then go set the parking brake. If it engages normally, test drive time. Too high means too tight, too low means too loose. A healthy parking brake should engage fully about midway to the floor or a little further.

 

[Cubey]

I can't use the parking brake because the equalizer part is broken/gone.

 

[Cubey]

Well I loosened the shoes some via the star wheel and now it feels slightly worse. I hate to do it, but I might have to freaken put the thing in a shop for brake work.. again. I just can't hardly trust shops though. They always seem to rip me off! I guess I will just have to buckle down and try doing proper brake shoe adjustment. Part of the problem is it's only me, so I can't press the brake pedal while also at the brake drum to see how it's acting when it's being pressed. Everything in there is new (the cyls were new Feb 2019) and I greased everything like it should be, so I dunno what the problem could be other than adjustment. I am CRAP at drum brake adjusting, it seems.

The larger reservoir being low in the master cylinder has me concerned since that's the front one. I did top it off yesterday with some DOT3 from a newly bought bottle. It hasn't dropped any since I drove it a little yesterday after I topped it off at the store. The only thing I did front brake wise this year was take apart and put back the front brake pads since one side was getting a bit hot and it was pulling to one side a bit. (That was probably the disconnected shock though, which i found after and replaced) I found that the leaf spring for the slider (vans don't use that rubber and metal sider like on trucks) was a bit lacking grease and the spring needed to be flattened out just slightly.

This seemed to happen after I touched the rear brakes though, so it's odd. And time line wise, I can't remember if I messed with the brake pads before or after I did the fuel pump (which matters in relation to when I last drove it) EDIT: Looking back in Google Photos, I did the front brake stuff before the fuel pump, so that's kind of a dead end.

I have not pulling to one side, just a rather soft brake pedal that doesn't seem to do anything for at least half of the travel, then still doesn't do a great job of stopping.

It's not lurching forward like it would if only the front brakes were working (had that problem on a Dodge van when a shop botched the rear drum brakes), so it's almost like the front brakes aren't doing much (or anything). Maybe they got air in them due to the low fluid? I HATE brake bleeding, I'm terrible at it. The only time I ever did a good job was with some "speed bleeders" similar to these I put on the previously mentioned Dodge: http://www.speedbleeder.com

Maybe I'll be able to hold off for a day or two until I get to the shop for the timing and have that guy also do a thorough brake system inspection/adjustment/whatever.

 

[gandalf]

Too loose now? Tighten the star wheel half way back to where it was when the drums got too hot. Adjusting these brakes is an incremental process for us non-professionals.

You might also have to bleed the lines some more. It's a PIA, I know, with only one person, but it may be necessary. DOT3 fluid is cheap enough.

When did you last replace the shoes? Two thoughts on shoes. Store brand shoes are not something I'd recommend. With the weight of that class-c you want to best shoes you can get. You've got a lot of rolling weight. With that weight there is every chance, probability, of overheating and burning the brakes. Once the shoes are glazed they won't be nearly as effective.

 

[Cubey]

When did you last replace the shoes? Two thoughts on shoes. Store brand shoes are not something I'd recommend. With the weight of that class-c you want to best shoes you can get. You've got a lot of rolling weight. With that weight there is every chance, probability, of overheating and burning the brakes. Once the shoes are glazed they won't be nearly as effective.

I just replaced the shoes and all the hardware inside, and the drum on the LH side due to damage caused by the shop that did the hydraulic work (they left a foreign bit of metal inside and left the bottom spring off!). That's why the adjustment is messed up now. I put in heavy duty shoes: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000IY48Q0/

 

[IDIBRONCO]

(vans don't use that rubber and metal sider like on trucks)

My truck doesn't have the sliders.

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[Cubey]

My truck doesn't have the sliders.

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Ah, so older trucks (pre-87) have the little leaf spring and I shaped slider thing. My 87 F250 has the squeeze end sliders.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Apparently so. I was surprised when I noticed this. My red Truck has this style as well, but I assumed that it was a half ton thing.

 

[Cubey]

I will just go back and pull the axles and try to adjust the shoes myself first, since it costs me nothing to try. Just a day of work in the driveway again. I dread it, even though I know deep down it's no big deal. Such is my anxiety. I stressed over loosening the star wheels but it took me about 2 minutes for each side including removing the rubber plug. Worst case scenario: it doesn't help and I just have the shop look at it for me while I'm there for the timing.

As I recall on the Dodge van about 8 years ago (Dana 60 SRW with exact same style Bendix brakes), I ended up finally getting the drum brakes adjusted by myself after paying out the nose AND getting ripped off AND having to redo them myself at home in the end. (long story) A friend helped me with it a little though as I recall (he's since blocked me on FB for an unknown reason) where I think he sat in the driver's seat and pressed the brake pedal for me to see if it was locking the brakes in terms of being able to turn it by hand. Braking was still kind of crap on that but it was reasonably good enough that I didn't worry about it.

I guess I can get my mom to press the pedal for me, since she just has to sit there and press the brake pedal a few times with the engine idling in park for less than a minute while I'm back at the wheel, seeing if the wheel locks up from turning it by hand with the brake pedal pressed.

If adjusting doesn't help, I might consider trying to bleed the front brakes myself with a Gatorade bottle (I saw a video on how to make a one man bleeder with one and some clear tubing) and a $5 quart of Walmart DOT3. Seems odd that they'd suddenly be the problem though. I don't remember the braking being THIS bad before I touched the drums, so that seems highly likely to be the source of the problem.

My Econoline Chilton book mainly blames poor drum brake adjustment for "low brake pedal (excessive pedal travel required for braking action)" which sounds like what I have. The first 2/3 if not 3/4 of the pedal travel does nothing now. The other possible cause (besides bent brake shoes, which I know isn't the problem) is air in the system.

So, I'll try adjusting the drums first. If that doesn't do it, I'll try bleeding the front first since that's where it got low on fluid for some reason. Maybe it got a leak in one of the newer hoses or calipers suddenly, who knows?

I am just go fed up with brake problems on vehicles!! Shops rip me off and I end up losing sleep over having to do it myself but in the end I do end up making things good enough myself.