best choice of glow plugs

[metrobruce]

Is there a glow plug available that will stand extended glow times for starting on wmo. I have done around 3k so far on neat oil with nothing to thin it down and is heat treated to get shut of water then filtered to 15microns with a simple inline petrol filter, this seems to work well, not that I have had any trouble with unfiltered oil straight from the oil pan in the past. In the time that it has been on neat oil its needed more and more time on the glow plugs and now it needs ether to start, I get the tell tail signs of fuel present with the white smoke from the tail pipe when cranking and the engine has plenty of compression, this leaves me to believe that the glow plugs a goosed, I have been looking at replacing them with bosch duraterm items, does anyone have any experience with such items.

 

[BDCarrillo]

Might help others diagnose your issues if you put your particular vehicle/engine in your signature.

 

[The FNG]

In cold weather you will most likely have a hell of a time getting any diesel to start on WMO. it is not diesel, and probably never will be despite our best attempts. I would suggest thinning your oil mix and running an injector cleaner in your tank. I also have no idea what vehicle you have, so i don't know how to answer for glow plugs...

 

[79jasper]

He's in the UK. It's a metro diesel.

I drive a rover metro equipped with the humble peugeot tud5 1.5 liter diesel engine, I have been burning waste motor oil for years in my other vehicles and have gained info from this forum and thought its time that I gave a little back

Doubt they'd fit, but you can't burn out a ac delco 60g glowplug.
The duraterms are good also, but usually glowplugs like these don't work well with the factory glowplug system, best on a manual push button setup.
Sent from my SM-T537R4 using Tapatalk

 

[metrobruce]

theres nothing factory about my glow plug system, basically it is two bolts that are briged with a brass plate to operate them, the glow plug relay on the standard setup was garbage, the engine in question is a 1.5 liter peugeot tud5 idi diesel equipped with the superb bosch ve fuel pump and injectors that have been optimised for straight wmo, it has a looped return and a heated filter head. it starts and runs as normal until its left over night when temps drop to around -5*c and then the oil in the pump becomes more like grease. I understand that wmo isn't diesel,I also understand that thinning may ease things when cold starting. I am looking at getting a new set of dura term glow plugs and a inlet manifold heater that burns fuel and heats the manifold to ease the starting issue.

I doubt displaying my vehicle in my signature would be of any relevance to you guys, the ford IDI lumps have the rotary style pumps which complain when you put anything more viscous than diesel through them, over the pond we have lucas cav rotary pumps which perform well on diesel fuel but they **** a brick as soon as you think of an alternative fuel. the fuel system on my car has the distributer style pump like on the cummins 6bt/4bt. with no lift pump it drags cold thick oil from the tank. maybe a bigger battery might give more cranking speed and help with starting.

 

[FarmerFrank]

I agree with ya Bruce, I bet if you get it spinning fast enough with an inlet heater you'll be fine.

My tractors are ancient technology in the injection department. They are a cross fire. The fuel literally gets shot across the head into the energy cell ("pre-cup"). No glow plugs on the engine, just a big electric intake heater and it works great.

 

[FarmerFrank]

Sorry to side track ya but I keep trying to figure in my head how to loop my return like you said you do,

Do you have a couple ball valves in it so you can stop your loop and go straight to the tank? Does this seem to really help much?

I bought a 00 vw with the alh tdi and it has a looped return with a thermostatic T so anything below 30c it returns to te filter to aid in warmin it.

I've played with a looped return in the past but what would happen is the supply would prime, then the return would eventually pressurize a bit, it would then run on only the return and stall because the supply would loose prime

 

[metrobruce]

i fitted a hand operated priming pump to the feed, this has a non return valve in it, this stopped the priming issue and the loop is contained very close to the pump rather than round another filter. I have most of the parts to make a heat exchanger system that recirculates oil down the feed providing a positive pressure to the filter and then a pressure relief back to the tank. I am currently converting a watercooled intercooler to a water to oil heat exchanger that should have around a 2.5 liters of oil being heated, i will also have a valve to adjust the positive pressure to the loop.

If you have a vw tdi then you will get a small amount of running issues, the fuel temp sensor inside the pump went daft when I had wmo in my sdi caddy van so I bridged the two wires with a resistor as you do with the evry mod. I had 1z, ahu, alh engines running on 100% wmo these engines work better when modyfied to run a landrover 200tdi fuel pump. You can also use a cumins 4bt pump

 

[FarmerFrank]

No no my tdi does not see WMO. Maybe a gallon of WATF a fuel up but no black stuff. I am impressed that it has no lift pump. You crazy Europeans. Hahaha

 

[Brad S.]

As far as type of GPs, Bosch comes to mind, for European stuff..
Not sure if they'd be good with wmo, just thinking of availability/quality

 

[metrobruce]

tdi vehicles are so cheap over here Vw passats, Bora(jetta),mk3/4 golf (rabbit) are around $700-1000, in fact theres more diesel *** group cars than any other manufactures. having said that the best engines I have run on wmo have been, isuzu 1.7 idi, ford 2.5di, and the peugeot tud5 and in particular the peugeot xud 9a, all these engines had one thing in common, they are all equiped with bosch ve fuel systems

 

[Brad S.]

Is the Bosch fuel system good or bad???(with that many cars with Bosch in, would think its ok)
Always had this thought, that Bosch stuff,(small parts & major) were decent, according to the cost...??

 

[G. Mann]

Your issue is not glo plugs. You no start / hard start issue is fuel gel point, which is the temperature point at which the fuel, in your case WMO, fails to flow and atomize.

The addition of heat in the combustion chamber does not heat the fuel at the injector or the Injection Pump. You need fine droplets of fuel to gain the combustion caused by the compression of fuel/air mix in the compression chamber. At -5°C. your chosen fuel is failing to pump and atomize into fine droplets.

Heat is your friend in this case, properly applied to pre-heat of the fuel. If you do not have a block heater, which pre-heats the coolant, which rises the combustion chamber temperature, you will also see benefit from having one.

Alternate fuel such as WMO, or WVO, needs to be pre-heated to 120°F [to 160°F, upper range] prior to the injection pump to be made liquid enough to be atomized at the injectors.

You have a cold engine, cold fuel, at or near its gell point, cold ambient air... to get combustion, you need to rise all those elements to the fuels flash temperature, based on only the temperature rise caused by rapid compression at the top of the compression stroke.. [a few degrees before TDC, actually].

To cure the whole problem.. you have to fix all the elements. Failing to address "frozen fuel" will cause the other elements to fail in function.

You might want to change to a two fuel system. Switch to pure diesel prior to shutdown giving enough operational time for the Injection pump to purge all WMO and run the engine for a bit on pure diesel. Start on the pure diesel system and only switch to WMO when the engine reached full operation temperature. You will still need to address the issue of cold WMO failing to flow and atomize.

 

[metrobruce]

yes I understand that there is issues with viscosity, at -5*c my sample is still fluid enough to pour freely from the jar, but like you said it will be operating outside its optimum by a country mile.

At the minute I am waiting to start my new job as a teacher in motor vehicle mechanics and I haven't had a propper wage for some time, my plan is to get a block heater to address the cold start issue but at the minute funds are tight. on the other hand I have been hammering my glow plugs to death and I am pretty sure that there on there way out, I have had this particular engine in another car that I owned and so far it has covered 20k on what ever I have poured through it which was mainly WHO/ atf/ ep90 ect, I have yet to get a good source of this oil so I swapped to an easy to find fuel source. what has been noted by myself is that my experiments with my heating and filtering has been that when the oil has been brought to the boil the light elements evapourate and leave me with a fuel that doesent perform as well as cold filtered oil, in the past I used to just remove oil from the oil pans of scrap vehicles oil pans and pour it un filtered straight into the tank of my vans, at the time these had a bomb proof 1.7 isusu idi engine and a 2.5 di n/a ford engine.

brad mentioned the bosch fuel system, Basically these pumps will push gelled wvo out the injectors no trouble, all be it at the wrong temprature, us crazy europeans treat these the Bosch ve disributer pumps as the number one esential item when running on viscous fluids, I have a spare pump and injectors for the metro diesel ready to fit in case of a failure but touch wood the engine performs outstandingly once warm. these fuel pumps will work with anything oily and as much as I love the ford v8 engines the fuel system is a weak point and would lead me down the path of converting to cummins 6bt power if I was in your neck of the woods.

on the glow plug front I will be fitting new ones the set is around $55 for duratherm items, if this doesent help then its just good practice to periodically check and replace items that could fail in the future due to an increase in work load

because the distances I tavel before I stop for the full day are around 15 miles, the twin tank systems are superior but are also counter productive for me

 

[Brad S.]

Generally speaking, are there many people that run/burn wmo or wvo, in Europe???