Battery gnomes driving me up a wall!!!

[Classicfordguy]

So I rebuilt my engin and the truck would turn over very fast and start the moment I hit the starter, never heard a vehicle start that fast before, it was great.

Well about a month later it didn't start so well anymore, it was only pulling from one battery, I could fiddle with the big pos terminal on the pass side then it would start perfect again. after a while that wouldn't work any more. I have now cleaned terminals 90 times, even swapped each batt individualy for a nice big interstate I have but even then it still turns over very slow.

Alternator is putting out 14 volts, batterys are at 12.3V when sitting. Do I have a bad sulinoid? Starter? Alternator connection? Any ideas? Its driving me up a wall and it stranded me at Lowes the other day. Shame to have such a good running engine that I'm proud I rebuilt by myself but the stinking starting system won't turn it on.

Maybe it's time to engineer and air starter for my truck and hit the battery gnomes where it hurts!

Thanks in advance for your help.

-Rob

 

[towcat]

time for a starter.
now on the air starter.......how are you going to fill up the air tank when you run out of air trying to start the truck?

 

[suv7734]

Make sure the ground connections from the batteries on either side of the block are clean and tight. What kind of shape are your battery cables in? Poor connections causing a 'slow' crank can put extra stress on (burn up) the starter especially if you crank for more than 20 seconds without a cool down period.

 

[RLDSL]

PRobably time for some new cables. There's a guy on the net who makes up some nice cables or you can make them up yourself.
I went with a set of big truck stud top batteries and made up a set of 3/0 cables. Works great.

A few of us hashed around the air starter idea a couple of years ago. nobody makes one off the shelf for these engines ( pretty odd, they even make one for a 300 6 cyl gasser ) but I even contacted a few places that make the things and it would wind up costing about 4 grand to get setup with an air starter for one of these things. You could buy some pretty wicked batteries for that kind of cash

 

[Full Monte]

Agree with RLSDL. Any frayed cables or poorly connected cables with give you starter problems. Think of it this way: the diameter of the cable determines how much current can go through it. The smallest diameter of the cable is the limitation here. Your starter needs about 600amps of current to spin the engine fast enough to start. If your cables can't handle it, no start. I went through this with mine. Connections are one place where this cable "neck-down" problem can occur. Oxidation of the wires inside the cable end can do this. Sometimes battery acid will get in there and coat all your little copper wires for you too. Putting on new cable ends can work as long as the wires going into the cable ends are nice and clean. Using grease can keep the corrosion from happening in the future.

 

[MUDKICKR]

my question is not the barrety connections but the alt connections. if the alt has poor connections it wont charge the batteries. does your battery light ever come on or ever come on dim? i have seen problems like that before, just wondering.

 

[Classicfordguy]

I'll check my gounds, I obviously had them off when rebuilding the engine, maybe the block paint is causing poor connection. My battery light has never come on, is 14V the proper output for this alternator?

My battery cables are a bit nasty looking inside the sheath, when I cut the pass side positive terminal clamp off to try and replace it the wires were a bit coroded and covered in green powdery stuff (I guess copper oxidation) they seemed to be getting brittle.

I am planning on getting the stud top clamps. Where can I buy wire that size to make my own new wires?

Thanks,

-Rob

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

I am planning on getting the stud top clamps. I assume you meant STUD-TYPE LUGS


Where can I buy wire that size to make my own new wires?

Thanks,

-Rob

I use welding-cable, as it is much more flexible and not nearly so expensive as buying from the auto-parts.

As far as the batteries/cables are concerned, the best move I made was to do away with the lead clamps and crimp on the copper-lugs, thus switching over to stud-type batteries.

On that second battery that has the lead-clamp mid-mounted in the cable, DO NOT mid-mount a copper-lug; instead, make TWO seperate cables, one from the left battery to starter, and the other from left battery to right battery.

Until you buy Group 30/31S stud-type batteries, you can install marine terminals to your old post-type batteries and fasten the copper-lugs to them.




As for the connections, any parts of the cables and mounting screws that can be removed and taken to the grinder, they should be cleaned and shined-up with a grinder-mounted wire-brush.

A 4-inch side-grinder with a wire-brush installed in place of the rock can be used to clean/polish the ground points on the engine-block and the HOT connection at the starter.




Bad connections are usually more to blame than bad starters.

My old 6.9 has over half-a-million miles on the original starter.

 

[RLDSL]

I'll check my gounds, I obviously had them off when rebuilding the engine, maybe the block paint is causing poor connection. My battery light has never come on, is 14V the proper output for this alternator?

My battery cables are a bit nasty looking inside the sheath, when I cut the pass side positive terminal clamp off to try and replace it the wires were a bit coroded and covered in green powdery stuff (I guess copper oxidation) they seemed to be getting brittle.

I am planning on getting the stud top clamps. Where can I buy wire that size to make my own new wires?

Thanks,

-Rob

You've got a Truck Pro near you, they'll have the best price on that large size cable and ends. When I make up battery cables, I saturate the ends with conductive grease like Noalox ( available at places like Lowes near the service entrance boxes ) to prevent future corrosion, rub it into the cable strands. and seal it with heat shrink tubing I've never had a set go bad like factory cables.

 

[rubberfish]

It sounds like once you get these cables replaced
your troubles will end. Corrosion is your enemy.

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

I have had excellent results saturating any wire that gets crimped, but not soldered, with plain old Vaseline.

I started using it when I read an article in a marine site that showed pictures of various crimped connections dissected after several years in use around salt-water; the wire-ends that had been coated with Vaseline looked shinier than new.

When possible, when using the heat-gun on the shrink-tubing, I hold the end UP, in order for any excess melted Vaseline to run back inside the wire's insulation.

 

[Classicfordguy]

Those all sound like great ideas. I guess I need to head to a welding shop for some wire ( I assume for an arc/stick welder). What is the actual size of the big wire going to the starter and the slightly smaller ground wires? 00 and 0 gauge?

I have a truck pro 15 miles from me so I'll be checking that out for sure.

Thanks guys,

-Rob

 

[RLDSL]

Those all sound like great ideas. I guess I need to head to a welding shop for some wire ( I assume for an arc/stick welder). What is the actual size of the big wire going to the starter and the slightly smaller ground wires? 00 and 0 gauge?

I have a truck pro 15 miles from me so I'll be checking that out for sure.

Thanks guys,

-Rob

I use 3/0 for the battery cables all the way through. I don't fool with welding cable, just buy regular heavy truck battery cable. The larger the cable , the easier it is for the juice to get from the battery to the starter. You could go 4/0 but it would get mighty hard to make the bends. Wouldn't hurt to make the last section where the two battery positives join together to the starter a 4/0 though, that's a fairly straight leg . The crossover between the two batteries you would never make the bend with larger than 3/0 ( well, you might, but it would be under constant tension which isn't great for your battery terminals )

When you go into Truck Pro, Wear a bib , and be careful... There's lots of shiny things in there that can reach out and grab your wallet

 

[MIDNIGHT RIDER]

I don't fool with welding cable, just buy regular heavy truck battery cable.
You could go 4/0 but it would get mighty hard to make the bends.
The crossover between the two batteries you would never make the bend with larger than 3/0 ( well, you might, but it would be under constant tension which isn't great for your battery terminals )

Hence the reason we use welder-lead cable.

Plain old battery-cable is comprised of a small amount of rather heavy gauge wires, twisted together and covered with insulation.

Welding cable is comprised of thousands of tiny strands of copper, thus making it much more flexible.

Also, the insulation on welder cable is designed to be drug across dirty floors, sharp-cornered truck flats, and the like, without being easily damaged.


A 4/0 welding cable is more flexible than plain old 4-gauge battery-cable, which is about a fourth the size.