sle2115
NRA LIFE MEMBER
The yellow seems runny to me. I wouldn't hesitate to run the pattern you are showing in that last picture, especially in a front end of a 4X4 that isn't in 4X4 often (as you said).
axle gears contact pattern - take a look and voice an opinion pls
- Thread starter LCAM-01XA
- Start date
LCAM-01XA
Full Access Member
My concern with the backlash comes from the fact that every once in a while I may have to run in 4x4 for prolonged distances. In particular when the highway authorities puts up the "chains only" or "4x4 only" signs, and I got a camper loaded on and a Jeep in tow. Don't happen often, but still. In my experience weather conditions that warrant said signs also prohibit speeds over 35mph, at least I'm not comfortable driving much faster than that in the evil white fluff.
And something I read on Pirate, that under load the drive side pattern tends to creep up towards the heel end of the teeth, so when setting up the gears it's generally a better idea to have the drive side pattern more towards the toe end of the teeth.
And something I read on Pirate, that under load the drive side pattern tends to creep up towards the heel end of the teeth, so when setting up the gears it's generally a better idea to have the drive side pattern more towards the toe end of the teeth.
sle2115
NRA LIFE MEMBER
Oh, I agree it isn't perfect and it looks as if it's going to take shimming carrier to get there. I guess it's your call. My truck runs in 4X4 quite often, so I adjusted, adjusted, and adjust some more to get both axles as near as perfect as I could. I've got a few kmiles on mine now with very good results, so I think I'm pretty close.
PwrSmoke
Full Access Member
Get the depth right AND the backlash. What you don't do right now, you will regret later and agonize over for a long time even it it does sorta-kinda work down the road. Or work for a while. I have seen a couple of failed front diffs that were haphazardly set up (tight backlash) on the pretext, "it's only the front diff." Seen a few people that got away with it took (I did once) but I see gambling as something best done in Vegas where at least you can get a cheap meal before you head home with empty pockets. The excuse of having to wait a few extra days to order up a shim pack will be thin gruel if that happens to you.
Randys' sells a great bearing puller. Their site is down right now (or I'm having some problem) or I would link to it. It's blue and it's the best thing since sliced bread. It almost always pulls bearings off intact unless you screw up by not putting the bearing race (cup) on. In the hundreds of bearings I've pulled with it, the only failures I've had are when I forgot to install the race. There were a few bearings it didn't fit as well.
I usually buy or make test bearings for setup. You hone out the inner bore so the bearings will slip onto the carrier (or pinion) and do all the setup work and shim selection with the setup bearings, then press on the new bearings after I have my best pattern.
The thing about adjusting the backlash to get the pattern onto the toe of the drive side is that it isn't often or very often possible. Good goal to shoot for if you want to work at it
Randys' sells a great bearing puller. Their site is down right now (or I'm having some problem) or I would link to it. It's blue and it's the best thing since sliced bread. It almost always pulls bearings off intact unless you screw up by not putting the bearing race (cup) on. In the hundreds of bearings I've pulled with it, the only failures I've had are when I forgot to install the race. There were a few bearings it didn't fit as well.
I usually buy or make test bearings for setup. You hone out the inner bore so the bearings will slip onto the carrier (or pinion) and do all the setup work and shim selection with the setup bearings, then press on the new bearings after I have my best pattern.
The thing about adjusting the backlash to get the pattern onto the toe of the drive side is that it isn't often or very often possible. Good goal to shoot for if you want to work at it
LCAM-01XA
Full Access Member
I know the bearing puller you're talking about, if I had it that mess would have been over with 2 days ago. Lack of shims is not the problem here, lack of means to rearrange them from side to side is. And right now I simply can't afford said tool. So the point is to get is as best as I can with what I'm able to adjust now (pinion depth), with the idea that later when finances allow it the thing will be revisited and proper setup will be performed (since I wanna run a limited slip anyways). So no, I'm not haphazardly trying to put the thing together, if that were the case I'd have it all closed up and ready to hang under truck already.
Anyways, still working on it, this is what I got now - drive:
Coast:
I think there is a noticeable improvement over what I started with, especially on the drive side. And idk how I measured backlash first time around, but I'm exactly at .007 now, verified with two dial indicators. How does pinion depth look now? Still a bit too far out?
And what's the backlash specs anyways, according to the book? I see one place online says 6-10 thau, then next site says 4-9, etc. Does anyone know exactly what the Dana engineers want it to be? Say, if I move the pinion in a bit more, and end up with .004 backlash, would that be considered too tight? Or would it still be acceptable?
Anyways, still working on it, this is what I got now - drive:
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Coast:
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I think there is a noticeable improvement over what I started with, especially on the drive side. And idk how I measured backlash first time around, but I'm exactly at .007 now, verified with two dial indicators. How does pinion depth look now? Still a bit too far out?
And what's the backlash specs anyways, according to the book? I see one place online says 6-10 thau, then next site says 4-9, etc. Does anyone know exactly what the Dana engineers want it to be? Say, if I move the pinion in a bit more, and end up with .004 backlash, would that be considered too tight? Or would it still be acceptable?
PwrSmoke
Full Access Member
I have Dana 60 manual right here and it says 0.004-0.009" checked at three point around the gear and they can vary only 0.002" between the three points. If you are within that range you are OK. SIx mionths ago I set up a front D60 in a Dodge at 0.004-0.005" and it was fine. That's tighter than a lot of guys like to se it but if it's in the book, it's in the book. Good luck.
That coast side looks really good. Id run it there till you install the limited slip.
LCAM-01XA
Full Access Member
Excellent, thank you gentlemen! I measured the backlash around the ring gear, took a measurement every 1/4 turn of the yoke. Number run between 5 and 7 thau, dipping to 4 in only one spot and jumping to 8 in another spot. Compared them to radial runout, and sure enough where backlash got loose the ring gear dipped in towards the bearings axis creating a low spot, and where backlash was tight the runout jumped out away from the axis making a high spot. These two spots are 90 degrees (around the ring gear) apart from each other.
I know the solution to uneven runout is to pull the bolts and rotate the ring gear on the differential. Question is given that my low and high spots are not opposite to each other across the ring gear, how much do I rotate the gear on the diff, and in what direction? Do I put the low spot in place of the high? Do I turn it the other way and put the high spot where the low one used to be? Spin it around 180 from where it is now?
I know the solution to uneven runout is to pull the bolts and rotate the ring gear on the differential. Question is given that my low and high spots are not opposite to each other across the ring gear, how much do I rotate the gear on the diff, and in what direction? Do I put the low spot in place of the high? Do I turn it the other way and put the high spot where the low one used to be? Spin it around 180 from where it is now?
icanfixall
Official GMM hand model
Did you remove the ring gear from the carrier. If so take it off and run a honing stone over the carrier. You may have pulled some threads and have a high spot on the mounting area. Anythime you remove anything that metal to metal fit the surfaces should be honed flat. Thats just insurance you don't have a high spot that causes problems with fits. Its a mostly overlooked part of any metal to meatal fit. Some oil on a stone will show up any problem areas quickly. The stone actually grabs the high spot..
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