I've posted before about adjusting my ip timing but havnt had time to mess with it. Well I've got time now an I'm gonna try and tackle it tomorrow! I know I move pump towards passenger side but how much is safe? Is there any way I can measure how much I move it? I don't want to be eating glow plugs. Just so everyone knows there's only one shop around here that claims they have a meter to do it and they charge $75 an hour and said it takes about an hour to do?? Is it worth it? Thanks!
Adjust ip timing without a meter??
- Thread starter 93f250idi
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Diesel JD
Full Access Member
Only you can answer if that $75 is worth it to you to have the timing spot on. It seems kinda steep but they have tools that are expensive and becoming harder to get. For that price I'd want to watch and tell them where to put the timing. If you're pretty sure the guy is honest and he times with tools it's probably not unreasonable. I'd hate to see you try to time it by ear especially if you haven't had a lot of experience working around IDIs. Even the best folks tend to be able to only get it to +-2-3 degrees by ear. You could move it and be very unhappy with the results. If you do mess with it yourself at least take the time to mark where it is now and only go very slowly, like no more than a dime's thickness at a time. A dimes thickness usually represents 1-2 degrees of dynamic timing. Also, it's pretty risky to adjust this with the engine running and definitely not recommended. Bad things could happen to the pump. If you take it to the shop ask for 8.5-9.7* BTDC with the pulse method at 2000 rpm or about 1.5* ATDC at 1400 with the luminosity method. I have mine close to 0*ATDC with the lumy method but I'm not sure I want to advise that. If he looks in the book those specs are out of date, and would be considered retarded with the new ULSD fuel. I'd only use the old specs if I were burning WMO or old (illegal) HSD fuel. The newer stuff has higher Cetane and lower BTU content than the old fuel did so to get the same or similar power and economy the timing is called for to be advanced a couple degrees. Anything past about 10* BTDC luminosity or anything in the BTDC range at all with lumy is looking for trouble. The book specs are 8.5* BTDC at 2000 rpm +-2 degrees, meaning technically as retarded as 6.5 or as advanced as 10.5 could be considered within spec, but 6.5 is going to leave a lot on the table and 10.5 kinda scares me even on B100. You can probably get it there by ear if you have a good ear, but getting it spot on would be luck not skill and who wants to tighten and loosen thos IP bolts 2 or 3 or more times? You'll see what I mean if you try it.
Does it really take an hour with the right tools? It's worth it but I'm not convinced he can really do it. How hard is It to do with a meter? This is my first idi and I plan to have many more to come so maybe it would be a good investment?
Diesel JD
Full Access Member
Truthfully I think he's padding his pocket with the hour, but it is pretty standard at any diesel shop. If you like the IDI and you want to leep this one and maybe have more, a timing meter is a great investment but be careful. Many of the ones you see for sale on ebay or craigslist are missing crucial and sometimes irreplaceable components. A good example is the luminosity probe on Snap-On MT 480, and 1480 meters. The most modern technology available is the Ferret Pulse Adapter. I hear that Mac Tools may have something similar, probably Snap On does as well. You're going to pay good for any of these new tools but they will allow you to time with the pulse method just by tying into an adjustable strobe timing light.
Heres the item description
This item has been used once and is in great working order, there is on small blemish on the face does not affect operation. Sells for $300 plus off truck,Description: Diesel pick-up adaptor takes the diesel fuel line pulse, converts it into an electrical pulse and routes it through a wire loop. An inductive pickup from a timing light or tachometer can read it and provide information to the technician. The MT257B can be used on diesel engines without a common fuel rail. This is typically found on models prior to 1995. The MT257B is not for use on diesels with common rail fuel systems. Previous transducers will work with the MT257B. Features include shock resistant rubber boot, rotational on/off switch and tilt stand.
This item has been used once and is in great working order, there is on small blemish on the face does not affect operation. Sells for $300 plus off truck,Description: Diesel pick-up adaptor takes the diesel fuel line pulse, converts it into an electrical pulse and routes it through a wire loop. An inductive pickup from a timing light or tachometer can read it and provide information to the technician. The MT257B can be used on diesel engines without a common fuel rail. This is typically found on models prior to 1995. The MT257B is not for use on diesels with common rail fuel systems. Previous transducers will work with the MT257B. Features include shock resistant rubber boot, rotational on/off switch and tilt stand.
is it a MT257?
how much is it?
if it works and it's under $150, buy it.
they aren't accurate to the last tenth of a degree, but I've never had a problem with how I timed pumps over the years. the only difference between the A and B models is the packaging.
if it works and it's under $150, buy it.
they aren't accurate to the last tenth of a degree, but I've never had a problem with how I timed pumps over the years. the only difference between the A and B models is the packaging.
heres some pics
Attachments
they're not idiot proof. I.E. it's not plug-n-play easy. it will take a little work to get the flashes to work consistently but once you get used to it, you can time a truck very quickly.
buy it. if you don't like it, I'll buy it from you for what you have into it.
Diesel JD
Full Access Member
PM Calvin, he's usually very helpful to the board. I've used an MT254 which does the same thing as that except it converts the cylinder explosion(luminosity) to a signal that can be read by a timing light. The trick with these trucks is that the have no timing marks only a "0" for TDC. What you have to do is dial in(I don't know how this meter works but on most you have to dial in degrees advance on an adjustable strobe timing light). You need to note where the timing is with your offset entered into the meter or light and advance or retard the timing till the flash lines up with the 0 mark with your desired degrees of advance typed in. For example you find the timing mark, hook up your snap on adapter to the #1 injector line and dial in 9 * advance (9*BTDC) and the marks don't line up in fact the flash is a few dime's widths to the right of the zero mark. Your timing is retarded so advance it till the marks line up and the light from the timing light hits the "0" mark at 2000 rpm. Also the timing should be more advanced at idle and when you put direct power to the cold timing advance the timing should immediately become 2-3 degrees more advanced. If it wont advance you may have a problem, also when you give it some throttle the timing should begin to retard somewhat, at least on a stock pump. The moose pumps and other hot pumps change the timing curve so it doesn't fall flat on it's face at higher rpm, but for a stock DB2 you'' see it become more and more retarded as you increase engine speed, this is normal and is to save you from yourself. It doesn't take much movement of the pump to change your timing. Even something as small as a dime's width will have a significant impact. Getting around the fast idle solenoid and brackets, FIPL or VRV and then getting the bottom bolt loose are the biggest tricks. After that the biggest worry is can you get it to stay where you moved it(bearing in mind small movements have big impacts)? It's a great thing to learn and I hope you can get it done. Good luck
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